The current selling rules seem quite reasonable to me. Constant bumps to push items back to the top of the board just benefited sellers who shouted loudest - well, bumped most frequently. It's pointless to click on a thread for updated information just to see something like "Friday bump". The search feature works well enough to dig out older threads, in my opinion.
I just don't see why you can't enforce bumping limits, but still allow threads to go back to the top. My post is now on page 3 or 4. I just updated it, but I seriously doubt anyone will see it. If you look on many for-sale forums at both the WTB and the FS adds, you see that there are a lot of 'ships passing in the night' so to speak. People do not necessarily do their best diligence by searching. And what's more, if I set my price too optimistically, and then lower it later, anyone who did visit the ad will never know that I lowered my price unless they're revisiting my ad multiple times. Why would anyone do that when it's on page 4? I stand by what I said before, selling stuff online is all about timing and tweaking. The current forum rules make it a lot harder to make and then tweak an ad until you get it right and find a buyer. Just live and let live a little here guys. If 1 or 2 people are abusing the site, well, moderate. Give a warning or ban them for a certain amount of time.
It depends on how you are viewing it. If you are viewing through Tapatalk or using "New Posts", the bumps bump. But if you navigate to the For-Sale forum, those are ordered by the timestamp of original post. At least they are supposed to be. These are limitations of the software.Originally Posted by cowanw
Rick "who'd rather the software enforce this automatically in all cases, but alas..." Denney
so many variables! and different ways of viewing the forums that produce unique little situations/ quirks / problems for each of us.Rick "who'd rather the software enforce this automatically in all cases, but alas..." Denney
Everything you are suggesting has been tried, and also generated impassioned complaints. It wasn't 1 or 2 people abusing the site. We've had deeply experienced members who just can't resist commenting on sales threads, because they are here to talk about LF stuff. But even though that isn't the place for those discussions, and allowing those discussions there caused many problems and piles of complaints, we don't really want to start applying disciplinary action to long-time members who are indulging exactly what this site is intended to provide (except in the FS forum). So, instead of constantly reminding people about it, with warnings and banning, we just set the forum so that nobody can respond to sales threads except the OP. I seriously doubt that will prevent any sale from being made, if there is an actual buyer. I don't think it's the job of the forum to teach its members how to write an ad through extended trial and error. My observation is that any desirable item, if adequately described and well priced, will sell quickly. If it is not generally desirable and needs a special buyer, those buyers will be searching for things. And perhaps prices on some things have declined in recent years and not everyone has caught up with that. I was at Camera West in Palm Springs earlier in the week, and looked at several of their LF lenses. I was shocked, given Camera West's reputation for pricing, at how low the prices were. Prices are set by sellers but validated (or not) by the market.
It may be that our rules do, in fact, interfere with some sales, while making other sales more visible than they would otherwise have been. But there seems to be zero solution space here, based on all the things we've tried, when measured by who it does or does not make happy.
Well. for now, we are trying this one.
Rick "you have no idea how much 'moderating' the FS forum has actually required in the past" Denney
It's a private list. Don't set your price so optimi$ticaly and then it will sell without bumps! There's always the auction site if you're that unhappy!
I for one wish there was a way to remove all of the for sale items from under "Today's Posts." It's better now than it was--for a while it was like opening a search results page at Craigslist--but I still tire of all the for sale posts.
Must they be included under Today's Posts? I don't need constant updates on what's for sale and what's been sold.
"Rick "you have no idea how much 'moderating' the FS forum has actually required in the past" Denney"
On any forum some things must be moderated, and do indeed take up a lot of time. In the main threads that characterize this forum most people attempt to stay on topic so the major need for moderation would be to maintain civility becaues even in the best of worlds decent people do make mistakes of behavior.
The FS forum, not being essential to the mission of the LF forum, and not being a soure of revenue for this site, should in my opinion function strictly on a Buyer Beware basis. That is how it functioned until around 2012 when the moderators began to create the current set of rules as a result of some whining from members about real or perceived views of the resonsibility of the LF forum to protect them. And the result is an increasing use of rules to moderate the FS and WTB threads, including the Buyer Beware section. Well, more rules in this area will never work because rules can never replace buyer or seller responsibility. I am amazed by the number of people who attempt to involve the forum in buying and selling issues which are purely a private matter and have problems because of their own failure to do their homework.You can put in as many rules as you like but in the end they will only result in, 1) need for more time in enforcement by the moderators, and 2) irritation by members at the real or perceived absurdity, complexity or inconvenience of more rules.
You seem to believe that the rules have benefited the forum in some way. I disagree, and say that as a buyer and seller who has never experience any problem in buying selling on this forum.
My suggestion to you and the other moderators is to simply get rid of the morass of rules and advisories and reduce the FS/WTB section to a simple two or three line paragraph similar to what they have on the Luminous Landscape, state clearly that it is not the role of the LF forum to moderate or intervene in sells between indiviudals, and leave it to those who wish to use the selling and buying tool to resolve their own problems. In my opinion that would be a vast improvmenet over the current situation.
Sandy
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I reject the premise that I should simply deflate my prices so that my items sell faster than they can go off page 1. That's just crazy, and it would deflate the value of all our gear investments. I'm not trying to give anyone a screaming good deal, I'm trying to sell my items at their fair market price to a small audience. In my case now, I simply broke up the prices into pieces since for simplicities sake, I started by trying to sell as a kit. I didn't actually lower my prices, I just broke up the sale. I did a lot of research before I priced my gear and it is based on former sales right here on LFF. However, anyone looking for a Chamonix will probably just post a WTB since they won't see my ad most likely.
Instead of the 30 day limit, you could just make it 7 days. I hardly see the harm in someone reposting an item they want to sell every 7 days. That gives people's ads plenty of time to circulate. But generally I agree with the other posters who think that you should just take a laissez-faire, buyer beware approach. These changes might not sound like a big deal when you're not actively trying to sell something, but when you are, they become massively restrictive. This is the kind of thing that drives sellers TO LFF from places like eBay, which is always my absolute last resort due to their exorbitant fees and rules.
"Exorbitant fee" - iɡˈzôrbəd(ə)nt fē - adjective + noun. a relative term
eBay charges the typical seller a commission of 10% of the sales price, and if PayPal is used, there is a PayPal fee of 2.9% + $0.30, which can be charged to either buyer or seller, as agreed. And, then there are the PayPal refund policy issues. There are additional small fees for enhanced listings, etc. eBay store sellers pay a monthly subscription fee, and lower commissions. Listings are free, up to a certain number, after which additional charges apply. Various rules apply.
In contrast, what might be called "live" auction houses charge sellers a commission of up to 25%, and charge buyers a "premium" of up to 23% (17.5% at Christie's, 20% at Sotheby's, 23% at Skinner). These fees, of course, are in addition to appraisal and other fees (e.g. prep, crating, and shipping) that are paid by the seller. Marketing, and attracting the right set of potential buyers are handled by the auction house. Complex rules, defined by contract, apply.
Used camera vendors typically pay about 50% of what they think they can can sell the item for, but it's an up-front payment, not tied to the item actually selling.
LFPF - no seller fees, no buyer premiums, 3/day limit on listings, rules apply.
Everyone has a choice.
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