Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 182

Thread: Photography and Politics

  1. #151

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    4,197

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Thanks. I thought it would be a good idea. Moderation by all. It would fix a lot of problems with what people see is too much control by some. Of course, a control freak would not want it, saying something like "we can't trust the people to do that..." Oh....it's already been said.

    But even if the Poll system isn't implemented, at least having a sand box for politics could be fine. Just keep them out of every thread. That does what Bob says, creates drama anywhere a person with an agenda wants. The thread that started all this was a photographer trying to give support to a certain group. I could start a thread showing another group. Those threads should not be "voted off the island." But something that seems intentionally adversarial should be.

  2. #152

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    4,856

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    If you don't like being moderated by a single person, then let it by by group consensus. What is fairer than that? Unless....of course...people with political agendas want their thoughts to remain up....no matter what. That couldn't be.
    I'm okay with your idea... so long as the vote is a valid representation of the membership and a statistically significant sample size.

    Edit: which is just another way of saying what was just said in post 146 or 147 by The "Rick Denny" Moderator.

  3. #153

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    4,197

    Re: Photography and Politics

    And like I said, if 3 people is too few to vote, make it 8, or 25. I like the idea of more, then after a set period (imagine a Colosseum of Romans giving thumbs up/down), it's gone, or stays forever.

  4. #154
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,324

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    After 10 plus years here I think I can figure out when someones being an ass and derailing a thread.
    Bob, the mods have been here a long time, too, and we can sure see that. But if we all agreed about what constituted "derailing a thread", we wouldn't be having these massive feedback conversations.

    One person's derail is another person's useful and relevant change of direction. We've always said that the OP doesn't own a thread, and sometimes they do change direction. If the OP can dictate the direction to all future posts in a thread, then we have a series of blogs, not a discussion forum.

    The original purpose of the lounge was to provide people a place to vent their spleens about politics or whatever, with the result that it became immediately out of control. That's what led to the prohibition on politics.

    The question is: Are there some topics so volatile that they constitute prima facie evidence of a breakdown of decorum? At the time, it became clear that partisan politics and religion were two such. I do not think that standards of discourse are any better now, and I also think that political polarization has gotten worse. Thus, there is no interest in trying that experiment again among the current moderators, or indeed among (at least) most past moderators.

    I am personally opposed to trying to create group moderation (even assuming the software supports it), where three people can go through and force the deletion of anything they happen not to agree with. I'd rather have a benevolent dictatorship, no matter who is the dictator, than an unaccountable oligarchy.

    That does not mean we are not considering how we might open up discussions to find a balance that accommodates the thoughtful suggestions we have received.

    Rick "not interested in mob rule, either" Denney

  5. #155

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    58

    Re: Photography and Politics

    "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep asking what's for dinner" I have seen this attributed to Ben Franklin.

  6. #156

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    4,197

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by rdenney View Post
    ...
    I am personally opposed to trying to create group moderation (even assuming the software supports it), where three people can go through and force the deletion of anything they happen not to agree with. I'd rather have a benevolent dictatorship, no matter who is the dictator, than an unaccountable oligarchy....

    Rick "not interested in mob rule, either" Denney
    Good way to use rhetoric to try to sway towards your argument! Are you a politician? Again - I'm not saying 3 people, it could be a poll of unlimited number. Again - your assumption is that somehow a moderator is smarter or fairer than the group. I don't agree. Are you saying:

    "Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
    George Bernard Shaw

    Try it, what do the moderators have to lose? Oh yeah....control.

  7. #157
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Posts
    4,874

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    Wait - is anyone going to comment on my simple plan? Or is the point of all this to just argue? Each side has a....er....side. Neither will convince the other. Why argue about personal belief systems?

    My plan is simple, and equalizes moderation to everyone. Don't like democracy or 3 people that can delete? Change it to 8. The forum software won't handle it? Start every thread in the new Politics and Photography section with a Poll. Two choices: A) keep this thread, B) delete this thread. After 1 week, the moderators check the poll and take action. No reading required.

    What's so hard about that?
    Interesting concept. The software doesn't provide a means of enforcing the poll inclusion, however, so there is no way to deal with those who either don't read the rules, or choose to ignore them. Nor is there a way to ensure that those voting in a poll is a representative cross-section of the membership. So, I think it would end up being a thread-by-thread "moberation" sort of situation, with minority voices being silenced.

    As mentioned before, we experimented with allowing political discussions in The Lounge a few years back. It was a complete disaster, resulting in the "no politics or religion anywhere" rule.

    The core issue, it seems, is allowing discussion of the photographic issues while avoiding the blatant advocacy (one side or the other) of the underlying socio-political issue being depicted in the photographs.

  8. #158
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,324

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    And like I said, if 3 people is too few to vote, make it 8, or 25. I like the idea of more, then after a set period (imagine a Colosseum of Romans giving thumbs up/down), it's gone, or stays forever.
    Garrett, it seems to me that if the number is too small, it's an unaccountable oligarchy. If it's too large, it won't accomplish anything and the pie-fights will run unchecked. The notion that a group of large-format photographers, whose hobby is all about personal expression and working alone, can agree as a group is unevidenced, it seems to me.

    The thumbs-up, thumbs-down reference to Romans is not all all endearing this idea to me, at least.

    Brian, a statistically valid sample would be defined how? There are some people on this forum whom nobody would grant such authority, even as a vote in a crowd. That bears no resemblance to what I said in 147. Yes, three is too few, but if you have enough to prevent a secret cabal, then you require too many to be effective.

    I'm reminded of Agent K (yes, I get all my philosophy from movies, preferably comedies): "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet."

    We all want vibrant and open discussion, balanced by mutual respect and self-control. I do not see that the Roman Colosseum model promotes those desirable goals in any way. I see the needle swinging wildly between extremes with such a plan. I also do not see that it will relieve the moderators of any duties at all, and it will spill over into the rest of the forum, as it did before.

    I still need to counsel patience. We are converging on a plan, but we are still working through a couple of details. I think what we are converging on will accommodate the issues being raised, but, of course, there has been such a breadth of suggestions that there is no common solution to all of them. But the mods must first agree to something, and then we need QT's blessing. I've been in four different cities in the last two weeks and this is a busy time for me. The other mods are the same, and so it is with QT. If we all lived in the same city and could have a meeting, we could have done this quickly, but we don't.

    Rick "seriously considering suggestions, but not necessarily agreeing with them" Denney

  9. #159
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,324

    Re: Photography and Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    Try it, what do the moderators have to lose? Oh yeah....control.
    No, we have the forum to lose. Control? You can have it.

    Rick "who hasn't met a moderator yet who enjoys what it entails, versus just participating in the forum" Denney

  10. #160

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    4,856

    Re: Photography and Politics


Similar Threads

  1. Ban on Politics
    By paulr in forum Feedback
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 28-Jul-2015, 17:02

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •