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Thread: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

  1. #21

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Arri and other feature film lighting purveyors produce a wide range of LED light sources. If they're good enough for feature films, then they're probably ok for still photography, especially BW. Will cheaper versions be as good? Probably not. Will they be good enough? Look for user reviews. Flash is not exactly the same as daylight, and neither is most daylight, as that varies tremendously according to time of day, altitude, weather conditions..... So often we get stuck splitting hairs, when the original posters wants to know what a good light to start out would be.
    He wants to buy an LED light manufactured for outdoor use where output in lumens is the goal, not color accuracy. I don't think I'm splitting hairs, just trying not to be argumentative LEDs are a bad idea IMHO, having worked with them a fair bit and having tried many DIY solutions like he is proposing. The LEDs used in feature films are VERY expensive. Even a small one runs $2,000. Like I mentioned, I have expensive Fiilexes and even those I find wanting for photography.

    Here's a shot of the Fiilexes. As you can see, they are a few feet from the subject so I can shoot at ISO 100, but have to shoot wide open. If you shoot LEDs, don't expect to shoot at f8! As soon as you try to soften your light you might as well light with a candle

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxoti...7658340149504/

    I do feel the thread got sidetracked by worrying about the heat issues of quartz. Those lights have been used for decades and have a proven record. The great thing about quartz is the $40 worklight from HomeDepot is pretty much the same as the $400 light from Lowell. Yes, they're both hot and red, but they have an even color spectrum. Yes, if he can't deal with the heat or the amps they draw, then he must use LEDs. Certainly they're better than nothing.

    Believing that a cheap LED will work for B&W photography because there's no color is a rookie mistake. An imbalance in colors will lead to an imbalance in grays. Yes, most people wouldn't notice, but the OP will notice if the LED has very little blue output and he tries to bring out the detail of a blue shirt.

    That's my no splitting hairs rant

  2. #22
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    Another photographer and I use an approximately $200 led light for light painting in Gulfstream jets. I'm doing one tomorrow morning, and I can check on the model. This is high end work, and we have to match color samples. We switched from using a tungsten bulb about a year ago. Since the switch, color correction has been easier. If it works well for that....
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  3. #23
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  4. #24

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Another photographer and I use an approximately $200 led light for light painting in Gulfstream jets. I'm doing one tomorrow morning, and I can check on the model. This is high end work, and we have to match color samples. We switched from using a tungsten bulb about a year ago. Since the switch, color correction has been easier. If it works well for that....
    Again, I HAVE LED Lights, both the Fiilex and an Aputure $200+ light, probably similar to what you're using. I read the OP and if he's spending $400 Euros for LEDs then I agree he can get some good LEDs. I was reacting to the LED which was posted which was not made for photography. Maybe my point is that you can't go cheap on LEDs and you have to keep in mind that they aren't as powerful as other lights.

    I can make an argument for the other side. The reason I use LEDs, even though I wish they were brighter, is that I can model them perfectly without worrying about the temperature of the room. I favor light placement over color, so I use them. If that's what the OP wants, then definitely, LEDs are great in that way. I have good strobes too, but as much as I love the color and aperture flexibility, the modeling lights aren't strong enough for me to position them the way I want. You can't have everything; at least I can't

  5. #25
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    It's a very good point that LEDs differ widely in quality and in usability for photography. The link I posted earlier clearly shows this difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LWXznJx_0

    My main point has been that I disagree with Drew's comment that "LED is not an accurate color source. Might be someday, but sure isn't yet." It can be accurate enough for high quality work, and you don't have to spend tons of money to achieve good results. Of course, you can also go horribly wrong, just as you can with fluorescents.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  6. #26

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    When I shoot with daylight, so with the sky or windows, doesn't the color temperature change depending on the weather, density of clouds, time of day?
    Not getting reproducible results from shot to shot is probably something I'm already used too, no?

  7. #27
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    It's not color temperature that's predominantly the problem but the discontinuity of the spectrum. In the video I linked to the author compared a high cri led to a low one. Both were white-balanced. They don't look the same.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  8. #28

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    It's not color temperature that's predominantly the problem but the discontinuity of the spectrum. In the video I linked to the author compared a high cri led to a low one. Both were white-balanced. They don't look the same.

    I completely agree with what you say: the problem is the discontinuity of the spectrum.

    Anyway this have less importance with BW. Also it is possible to make a combination of different LEDs that provide a better SPD.

  9. #29

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    One of my bugbears about lighting in general is that it's one thing to light inanimate objects and quite ANOTHER to light the human face. You can get a cheap LED and shoot interior real estate photography until the cows come home and I doubt anyone would complain of the color. Shoot a portrait with that same light and you will end up spending hours in Photoshop trying to get their complexion right.

    It makes a difference in BW too. When you don't have richly exposed yellows and reds faces become pale. Biologically, we are very sensitive to skin color.

  10. #30

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    Re: Looking for a first artificial light for portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by maxotics View Post
    One of my bugbears about lighting in general is that it's one thing to light inanimate objects and quite ANOTHER to light the human face. You can get a cheap LED and shoot interior real estate photography until the cows come home and I doubt anyone would complain of the color. Shoot a portrait with that same light and you will end up spending hours in Photoshop trying to get their complexion right.

    It makes a difference in BW too. When you don't have richly exposed yellows and reds faces become pale. Biologically, we are very sensitive to skin color.

    Yes... for this reason there is nothing like Portra 160, or Fuji 160 combined with daylight equilbrated spectrum. Even BW conversions from Portra are impressive.

    Portra specially has a relative spectral sensitivity of each color layer designed to perform a nice color separation in faces.

    Digital sensors cannot reach that aesthetic performance by far, anyway Canon if better for faces than Nikon, and Nikon is better than Canon for other things.

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