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Thread: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

  1. #21

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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    I won't get into a peeing contest here, suffice it to say I owned a v750, a 4870 and a 4990 and they were adequate, I'm not slamming any of them (ok, maybe the 4870 a little).
    Once I saw the first scan from the Creo, it was like a veil had been lifted, literally; the sharpness of the film grain was in plain evidence, the colours were excellent, and the scanned image looked like the image I had made in my camera.
    There was a huge difference for me in the quality of the scan; whether I make a 1:1 scan or enlarge for murals, the quality of the Creo is plain to see...for me.
    I've only asked for a crop... The contest was made long time ago:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/scan-comparison/

    Here you have scans compared from Drums to the V750, Cezanne, etc. The differences are made well evident.

    About resolution take the scan from a drum and from a 750, (from the images in the scan-comparison) and apply sharpening to both until each enhances and compare. Little difference. Drums apply some sharpening in hardware, so this test if good to compare.

    About color profile, once calibrated to the IT8 both should do exactly the same, as linear CCD dyes can be different, for a given film V750 vs a Drum can have different look, but take a image from each and build a conversion LUT, from then V750 and that drum will render equal tones, but a special LUT has to be made for each color film to match.

    I repeat, for 135 and/or Velvia a Drum has an edge over, Cezanne has an smaller advantage. For color Print film and BW film LF that edge is seen with wall enlargemets at reading distance.

    A good scanner operator can do more with a V750 than other people with a Drum. There is multiexposure, image stitching... and wisdom applied to color.

    Perhaps you discarted the V750 before you controled it well.

    No such a magic difference is there, what is important is own skills. Hype... there is more around than skills.

  2. #22

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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    And gents... if one have money that do not fit in his pocket... and want to play with sharpness... just adquire an Universal Heliar 36cm !! contrary to the scanner investment your wealth will rise every month : )

    Or get a Sironar-S... that is sharpness.

  3. #23
    Pali K Pali K's Avatar
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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    This may be the only time I have heard that an Epson can match a high end scanner and a drum scanner to top it off. Either my v700 unit is the crappiest assembled unit that left Epson's factory or my Eversmart Pro and Scanmate drum scanners are far superior.

    I would like to debate on the topic but I am afraid I got into the film game fairly recently so will likely lose all arguments based on my lack of experience and arguably skill. However, one thing I know is that I see what I see and my eyes are perfectly good. I have owned an Epson for over two years and bought every darn accessory to make my scanner get the most my unit is capable of. Though it's a beautiful scanner, it just doesn't match an ES or drum by any stretch.

    My experience is consistent with what Ari has already mentioned above.

    Ryan, are you only looking for a scanner for LF B&W negatives? Would you be scanning any color negatives or slides? I ask because I generally agree that Epson is a great scanner if you are only scanning LF and B&W unless you wish to make really large enlargements from your scans. The Epson in my experience shines best under 1500 DPI which for me is more than enough for most of my 4x5 and larger negatives. For color, Epson falls a great deal behind the ES and no calibration will make it match the ES.

    Regards,

    Pali

  4. #24

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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pali K View Post
    This may be the only time I have heard that an Epson can match a high end scanner and a drum scanner to top it off.
    Hello Pali,

    It do not match it... A Toyota Auris do not match a Ferrari, but inside a traffic jam both have same top speed, acceleration and down force.

    About resolution from MF and up the enlargement has to be wall size to see any difference from a V750 to a Drum, and view it at reading distance.

    The human eye can see some 8 peceptual megapixels without moving eyes or head. If we move eyes but not head we can see 60 perceptual Megapixels in our field of view, this is 6 lppmm at reading distance. Once a scan has that image quality... A 4k TV has 8 megapixels...

    If one needs more image quality the best way if a bigger format, from 135 to 6x7 there is way, way more image quality (with a V750) than with 135 and a $1 million Hassy. Big format makes scanner performance irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pali K View Post
    color
    About color the single important thing is software, it do not depends on faltbed or drum, sure that a pro lab has better software and skilled professionals that know more than an amateur. I'm pretty sure that a conversion LUT can be built to make V750 colors look like any other scanner, and the counter.

    Even a DSLR can look like any film...

    http://www.vision-color.com/impulz/

    Anyway any digitalization destroys the magics of an slide, colors in a Velvia slide cannot be matched by a monitor today, because important Velvia colors are not even in the sRGB space. As TVs will end implementing all chapters of Rec.2020 this will improve.

    It is true that for ultra deep velvia shadows a drum has some better microcontrast.


    Please make this test, if you are interested in knowing the truth:


    It will take 15min, but you'll remember life long...

    Go here:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/scan-comparison/

    Take the crops from V750 and best Drum. Then looking the general image try to imagine at what enlargement a difference can be seen.

    Then take the V750 scan crop and with PS add some sharpening, it will nearly match, and then move a bit image controls... saturation, vibrancy, contrast... you'll get just the same.

    Just do this test, it's good because it blows Hype and then one can concentrate in the important things, that's to create art, to the extent every one is able.

  5. #25
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    The V550 can reach 3.4D but the V700 can reach DMax 4.0, way more the density than a BW negative can reach in strong saturated highlights, and TMax or Tri-X can reach 3.0D only. From 3.0D to 4.0D there is an entire world in the middle !!
    That's wonderful, and very surprising. How did you determine that the V700 has a DMax of 4.0D?
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  6. #26

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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    It is in the specs, and that specs are true.

    Also I've been using the V750 as a densitometer

    http://www.mrecord.talktalk.net/dens...ent/index.html

    And compared with the IT8 calibration target the V750 includes.

    I've been scanning velvia Slides of an artist, shot in Finland, (Low sun, very underexposed for earth to get sky) , I've measured Velvia densities, and I compared with scans from last model Imacon.

    Later with multiexposure and image stitching I got close performance with the V750, not as much than the imacon but closer than it may be thought, resolution, near DMax detail, and color.

    Sure Multi-exposure and stitching takes a work, but also it does drum wet mounting.

    The stitching is so straight. Put images in PS layers, resize 4x, auto-aling, combine.

    http://petapixel.com/2015/02/21/a-pr...ith-photoshop/


    Note: (The artist is Josep Martí Fornons, winner of Zoom Photo Festival 2010 Sanguenay, Quebec)

  7. #27
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Well, I've scanned a calibrated Stouffer step wedge with an earlier Epson flatbed, and the specs, which also claimed 4.0D, were false in practice, and not by a little bit.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  8. #28
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Well, I've scanned a calibrated Stouffer step wedge with an earlier Epson flatbed, and the specs, which also claimed 4.0D, were false in practice, and not by a little bit.
    I've done the same on a 750 and had the same results. The specs are notoriously inflated.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  9. #29
    Pali K Pali K's Avatar
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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Please make this test, if you are interested in knowing the truth:


    It will take 15min, but you'll remember life long...

    Go here:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/scan-comparison/

    Take the crops from V750 and best Drum. Then looking the general image try to imagine at what enlargement a difference can be seen.

    Then take the V750 scan crop and with PS add some sharpening, it will nearly match, and then move a bit image controls... saturation, vibrancy, contrast... you'll get just the same.

    Just do this test, it's good because it blows Hype and then one can concentrate in the important things, that's to create art, to the extent every one is able.
    Pere,

    This is what I pulled from the comparison scans from the link and it seems consistent with what I see.

    Epson V750


    Eversmart Supreme


    Howtek 4500


    Regards,

    Pali

  10. #30

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    Re: Changing from v700 to IQSmart2 for 8x10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pali K View Post
    Pere,

    This is what I pulled from the comparison scans from the link and it seems consistent with what I see.

    Pali
    You pointed the worse case, but look how with a slight PS action is not that as far. Even it could be scanned bad for that area, if in auto mode it discarted that range, if I scanned that negative for shure I'd do better, i think...





    And now look how it looks the other V750 sample vs Howtek, after slight sharpening and color correction inside the green frame :



    This second case do not look that bad, as the enlarging would have 4m high, and in competition with a drum, aslo I think I applied to much sharpen.


    The first case problem, I think it comes from a bad scanning procedure, it is something It would not happen to me, knowing how V750 autoexposure works. I always scan 16 bits full range and then I put the thresholds manually.



    remember, this would be 4m high, looking it from 4m far, no difference. Not one even at 2m.... You see some difference because it's a 4m enlargement and you see it at reading distance, as estated in previous posts, move 2m from monitor and judge.
    Last edited by Pere Casals; 24-Jul-2016 at 18:01.

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