Would it be incredibly difficult for an existing company to make Efke PL25M?

[David Aimone]

Just curious, this film was so unique and by far my favorite in large format, and now it's been gone for a while.

How difficult would it be for a company like Ilford or Bergger, or another small startup company (film Ferrania, Cinestill) to get the process from Fotomatika and produce this film? I know the factory shut down because their machinery broke down and wasn't worth fixing.

If I had to wish for one "new" film, this one would be it.

[IanG]

Bergger and Cinestill aren't film manufacturers, they buy from other companies. Mirko of Fotoimpex has stated there's notab big enough market for a film like EFKE 25 which was a 50 EI emulsion (25 EI in Tngsten light) and as Mirko was taking almost all EFKE could produce in recent years he knows the economics. The costs of re-formulation would make it uneconomic with relatively low sales, and the new Adox CHS 100 should fill the niche.

EFKE only made these films under licence from Dupont, maybe that had expired but thetechnology was very old, the plant making the emulsion and the coating lines were as well.

Ian

[David Aimone]

I haven't tried the Adox, so I just revisited their information. It's expensive, but if it's that good I might use it sometimes and give it a try. It does say you can use developers other than their own but at a lower speed. I develop Efke PL25M in Pyrocat-MC.

It's a shame the film isn't economically viable. I seem to get much more out of it than the other films I've used (at least when I can shoot a slower speed).

Bergger and Cinestill aren't film manufacturers, they buy from other companies. Mirko of Fotoimpex has stated there's notab big enough market for a film like EFKE 25 which was a 50 EI emulsion (25 EI in Tngsten light) and as Mirko was taking almost all EFKE could produce in recent years he knows the economics. The costs of re-formulation would make it uneconomic with relatively low sales, and the new Adox CHS 100 should fill the niche.

EFKE only made these films under licence from Dupont, maybe that had expired but thetechnology was very old, the plant making the emulsion and the coating lines were as well.

Ian

[peter schrager]

David you should try Foma 100..I think you might be surprised at the look
It's certainly cheap enough to try but go through an entire box of 50 sheets before you make a decision
Best, peter

[karl french]

Fomapan 100 is nothing like Efke 25. Though it is an interesting film.

The Adox is not particularly expensive if you order it directly from the fotoimpex website. I've been shooting quite a bit of it over the last year. It's a really nice film.

Currently awaiting their next production run...

[IanG]

I haven't tried the Adox, so I just revisited their information. It's expensive, but if it's that good I might use it sometimes and give it a try. It does say you can use developers other than their own but at a lower speed. I develop Efke PL25M in Pyrocat-MC.

It's a shame the film isn't economically viable. I seem to get much more out of it than the other films I've used (at least when I can shoot a slower speed).

The EFKE plant was old and wearing out, wages, rents etc were relatively low compared to Germany that was reflected in the prices. When Mirko/Fotoimpex introduced the new Adox CHS 100 they had to do research and testing before the re-formulated film could be released that cosy has to be recouped.

As Peter says if it's cost that's affecting what you use then Foma films are the way to go, While the Fomapan 100 isn't the same as EFKE 25 it's the same effective daylight 50 EI in practice and is a nice film. I've shot a lot of it mostly 120 but also 9x12cm, 5x4 & 7x5, In the US you have a big advantage as it's offered re-badged as part of Arista's range at lower prices, I also like the Fomapan 200. You do need to tame the contrast of Foma films, I used a couple of rolls of 120 to establish my effective EI and development time in Pyrocat HD and that's the same when using LF, developments is about 75% of the times for other films I use, that's important because Foma films build up contrast very quicky. I also tested the reciprocity which I've found to be nowhere near as bad as Foma datasheets would suggest.

I still have EFKE 25 and 100 left but my main films are Ilford Delta100/400 and HP5 with Foma as a backup so I've not bought any of the new Adox CHS100 which came out just after my last large order of Ilford film.

Ian

[monotux]

I haven't tried the Adox, so I just revisited their information. It's expensive, but if it's that good I might use it sometimes and give it a try. It does say you can use developers other than their own but at a lower speed. I develop Efke PL25M in Pyrocat-MC.

It's a shame the film isn't economically viable. I seem to get much more out of it than the other films I've used (at least when I can shoot a slower speed).

Make sure you are looking at the right film, it sounds like you've taken a look at Adox CMS and not Adox CHS II, these are very different films!

[David Aimone]

I use Arista EDU 100 and 400 all the time, and get nice results from it in Pyrocat-MC 1:2:100, but it's very different from the Efke film (which I also still have a dwindling stash in my studio).

I would like to try the Adox, but I only see Adox CMS 20 II and Adox CHS 100 II available in 4x5

[LabRat]

Guessing by the fact that even big film companies have sometimes stalled production on even 35mm slow emulsions, or jacked it's price compared to their other offerings, makes me think that slower films are something they prefer NOT to make... Most have different (even multiple) offerings of films in the 100ish/400 speed range, but their slow films have been on and off production/distribution...

I don't know why...

Steve K

[IanG]

I can't think of any manufacturer that has had a slow film on and off production/distribution and that's in 50+ years of shooting film. That's excluding copy/micro film and odd ball films like Techical Pan

Agfa stopped APX25 in LF very quickly slaes were just too low, they ceased it in 35mm & 120 becuase a key chemical component was banned and it was to expensive to re-formulate it due to low sales. I think EFKE eventually ran into a similar problem with EFKE 25 and Mirko indicated this was an issue with making a new slow emulsion.

Numerous Kodak films went due to poor sales Pan-X, Plus-X etc, Ilford have kept all their range except dropping Delta 400 in sheet film sizes, Pan F was never available in sheet film.

It's overlooked that modern T-grain (and type) emulsions are very close to the quality of older films like EFKE 25 which was probably the sharpest and finest grain film available from the 50's until Tmax.

The reality is the films we have today are the best available the biggest loss is APX25 & APX100.

Ian