Platinum Palladium from scratch

[bob carnie]

So here is a question - does anyone here work from scratch with these two if so I would like to hear comments
Pro or Con.

Here in Canada I am getting fantastic service from B&S but I have to say the shipping, customs and duties is really outrages , in fact
in some cases I am finding the components are less than shipping, customs/duties.

[Jim Noel]

I'm not sure what you mean by "from scratch", but I assume you mean from powdered chemicals with which you formulate your own chemistry.
The best way to save money in this field is to order your chemistry dry where possible to save the cost of shipping water. Most chemistry from B&S can be bought dry, but Platinum and Palladium salts require more care and technigue to get into solution than the average person can display. Developers, oxalates, and so forth are easy to dissolve. I buy powdered chemistry with which to formulate developers, clearing agents, etc from them but not in small quantities. I don't believe there is much saving when these are ordered in quantities smaller than 1000 gm.

[severson]

I buy the metal salts from Artcraft - I don't find the solutions to be hard to make up. Pros: somewhat less expensive, and for me, living in Buffalo, I get shipments from Artcraft in a day or so. Cons: it's less convenient than buying solutions already made up, and if you make a mistake when mixing up the solution, it can be an expensive mistake. But, if you have a Canadian supplier and the price differential is significant enough, I think it's well worth mixing your own.

[Alan9940]

Like Jim said, I, too, don't really know what you mean by "from scratch" because the entire pt/pd process is basically from scratch. However, if what you mean is the shipping of liquids, I'd recommend buying your developer, FO, and clearing bath in powder form. I'd be careful with the metals because these guys are toxic; some "roll their own" but I prefer to buy these already prepared. Heck, you ain't gonna buy a lot of platinum at any one time, anyway. This is assuming you'll be using platinum in your process, of course. I've bought bulk chemicals from B&S, Photo Formulary, and ArtCraft and I've been happy with the service of each.

Good luck!

[BarryS]

I make my own lithium chloropalladite--which can be used for developing out or printing out Pd/Pt. It's super easy, but the savings are minor. If shipping/customs are an issue, there's no reason not to mix everything yourself--the process is simple, so everything is easy to make.

[tgtaylor]

I think Bob is referring to the pre-prepared kit that B&S sells. Rather than using the kits, I prefer to mix my own from "scratch" by measuring out and mixing the various compounds. It's cheaper that way and you can mix only what you are going to use so your solutions are fresher. You need good scale, like a 1/100th gram Ohaus, for accuracy.

Thomas

[Michael Mutmansky]

Anyone doing any real volume will buy the metal salts and mix solutions. It can be much cheaper, and you have a bit better controls over what the mixture is. I prefer an alternate palladium mix than sodium chloropalladate, so I mix it myself.

By far the most difficult is the FO, which can be a pain to get in to solution properly. I use a hotplate/stirrer for that.

Artcraft may be a good source for you if you can arrange deliver in the US so you don't have to deal with the international aspect of the shipping? Not sure if that is worth the hassle, but may be worth considering.

[bob carnie]

Thank you all for your answers. Mixing from scratch is as Thomas In post #6 describes. I am disappointed that there are not savings to be had with this approach.

Don't get me wrong I really like Art Craft and B&S but I should shuffle to Buffalo and take residence, somehow the NAFTA doesn't seem to benefit me getting chemicals across the border.

Up until now I have been using moderate amounts, but have found the duties shipping to be a real PIA. I am going to multiply my usage of these components over the next 10 years
and I need to come up with a good plan.

Bob

[Michael Mutmansky]

Bob,

There are savings when buying large quantities of chemicals, but you have to be careful about buying the ones that have a shelf life. FO, in particular.

For the metal salts, the bigger savings will come from timing the market at a local low moreso than from a real bulk savings, but there is savings in there as well, even if you weren't trying to time the metals market.

There have been group purchases of pd chloride in the past, but I don't know how that will work with Canada involved. A few of us do a group buy from time to time. Gets a better rate and you will have enough pd for a few years. Typically, the buy-in is well north of $1000.

However, for simplicity and convenience, it's hard to beat placing an order from B&S and having the supplies show up a few days later, all mixed and ready to go.


---Michael

[bob carnie]

Hi Michael

Up here there is a big resurgence in alternative printing, I will try to put together a Canadian Buying group.

makes sense for large projects.

I have one right now that I am about to start where I have to make over 120 -16 x20 pt pd base prints. This will be significant order .

Bob

Bob,

There are savings when buying large quantities of chemicals, but you have to be careful about buying the ones that have a shelf life. FO, in particular.

For the metal salts, the bigger savings will come from timing the market at a local low moreso than from a real bulk savings, but there is savings in there as well, even if you weren't trying to time the metals market.

There have been group purchases of pd chloride in the past, but I don't know how that will work with Canada involved. A few of us do a group buy from time to time. Gets a better rate and you will have enough pd for a few years. Typically, the buy-in is well north of $1000.

However, for simplicity and convenience, it's hard to beat placing an order from B&S and having the supplies show up a few days later, all mixed and ready to go.


---Michael