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Thread: Is the Forum a repository or a community?

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  1. #1

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    Is the Forum a repository or a community?

    MODERATOR'S NOTE: I've moved the "repository vs community" discussion to its own thread, both so as not to derail Kirk's useful "Forum growth" thread and because this is an important topic in its own right.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    As well as the number of redundant questions and responses.
    Honestly, Sal, why are you so opposed to redundant questions? You really never know. Perhaps the 20th time something is asked, we finally get a correct answer. Asking for no redundant questions/discussions and asking everyone to wade through searches instead, implies this (or any other forum) is some sort of factual database and that everything authoritatively correct. Yikes.
    Last edited by Oren Grad; 28-Apr-2016 at 17:32.

  2. #2

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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    As well as the number of redundant questions and responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Why does that...matter? The information is being passed. What about schools -- they been teaching some of the same crap for decades?...
    It matters because, as originally envisioned by LUSENET's founder Phillip Greenspun, from whence this forum sprang, it's intended to be a useful archive of information, not a chat room. Cluttering up the database with redundant questions and answers makes it more difficult to search and adds no new information. In your school analogy, this is the textbook. Repeating the content of each chapter again and again, in random sequence, makes the book larger and larger, at the same time making it more difficult to carry around and use.

    There. I've once again answered that redundant rhetorical question, contributing to the very clutter problem I describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    ...Once most topics have already been discussed several times, which is pretty much the case, I suppose, what else is there to talk about?...
    Fortunately, this is not a commercial site. Maximizing traffic doesn't need to be a goal. There would be nothing wrong with not talking about those topics unless new or revised information were available that could be added to them. That and an occasional genuinely new topic; we haven't exhausted every facet yet.

    There's massive blah, blah, blah in the world. Not talking for a while might be a good thing.

  3. #3

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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    It matters because, as originally envisioned by LUSENET's founder Phillip Greenspun, from whence this forum sprang, it's intended to be a useful archive of information, not a chat room. Cluttering up the database with redundant questions and answers makes it more difficult to search and adds no new information. In your school analogy, this is the textbook. Repeating the content of each chapter again and again, in random sequence, makes the book larger and larger, at the same time making it more difficult to carry around and use.
    Deep down on this forum *and on others) this is the very schism that we encounter again and again. Some people see the forum as a database of technical knowledge, assembled and kept current by users. The knowledge base is the reason for being and everything else is clutter and distraction. Nothing wrong with that view.

    My view is that this forum is more like a large party at someone's house. There are clusters of groups talking about various topics. Not everyone stays on topic not do they have to. Conversation ebbs and flows. It's all recorded so later other coming to the party late can share the good stuff, too. There's a huge social element, and by "social" I don't mean idle chit chat but "Social" with a capital "S."

    Some of the issues on the board seem to spring from these two sometimes opposing views.

    --Darin

  4. #4
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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Boville View Post
    Deep down on this forum *and on others) this is the very schism that we encounter again and again. Some people see the forum as a database of technical knowledge, assembled and kept current by users. The knowledge base is the reason for being and everything else is clutter and distraction. Nothing wrong with that view.

    My view is that this forum is more like a large party at someone's house. There are clusters of groups talking about various topics. Not everyone stays on topic not do they have to. Conversation ebbs and flows. It's all recorded so later other coming to the party late can share the good stuff, too. There's a huge social element, and by "social" I don't mean idle chit chat but "Social" with a capital "S."

    Some of the issues on the board seem to spring from these two sometimes opposing views.

    --Darin
    You're right.

    There's a big dilemma here because yes this website as a whole is that resource and knowledge base but outside the actual forum there's little updating being done to the rest of the website to update or add new articles, resources etc. There's huge potential to dramatically improve the website, many of the current articles would benefit enormously ly from the addition of images, diagrams etc or just being updated with more current information. There are issues though because the text of the articles are the copyright of the original writers, sometimes there's multiple contributors.

    I think it was Brian Wallen who actually wrote some sample pages of what the site resources could look like, this was a few years ago.

    So at the moment there's a disconnection between the Resources and the Forum and maybe that's what needs discussion.

    Ian

  5. #5
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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    There's a big dilemma here because yes this website as a whole is that resource and knowledge base but outside the actual forum there's little updating being done to the rest of the website to update or add new articles, resources etc. There's huge potential to dramatically improve the website, many of the current articles would benefit enormously ly from the addition of images, diagrams etc or just being updated with more current information. There are issues though because the text of the articles are the copyright of the original writers, sometimes there's multiple contributors.

    I think it was Brian Wallen who actually wrote some sample pages of what the site resources could look like, this was a few years ago.

    So at the moment there's a disconnection between the Resources and the Forum and maybe that's what needs discussion.
    The Forum and the Home Page are managed separately. Renovations of the Home Page would require people who are willing and able to put in the necessary volunteer effort, and who can negotiate and coordinate any proposed changes with Tuan.

  6. #6
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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    The Forum and the Home Page are managed separately. Renovations of the Home Page would require people who are willing and able to put in the necessary volunteer effort, and who can negotiate and coordinate any proposed changes with Tuan.
    I missed this reply yesterday the threads split as I was posting a reply.

    The suggestion of upgrading the front end of the website was brought up before and Tuan at the time was not against this. I'm not suggesting drastic action just taking it from the Text based format it's in now to something rather more modern. There's not a huge number of pages so it's not a big task, essentially it needs a template and the current pages would just be cut and pasted into place with minor tweaking.

    However it then probably needs expanding, new articles added, and that has to come from contributions in the main forum, So an example would be using X-ray film.

    The problem is that at teh moment the front end now lags well behind the forum and needs bringing into line. I'm sure there ae people here who would volunteer to help, and maybe it needs Moderators to ask Tuan about whether they could be responsible the addition of new articles/resources themselves.

    Ian

  7. #7
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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    I missed this reply yesterday the threads split as I was posting a reply.

    The suggestion of upgrading the front end of the website was brought up before and Tuan at the time was not against this. I'm not suggesting drastic action just taking it from the Text based format it's in now to something rather more modern. There's not a huge number of pages so it's not a big task, essentially it needs a template and the current pages would just be cut and pasted into place with minor tweaking.

    However it then probably needs expanding, new articles added, and that has to come from contributions in the main forum, So an example would be using X-ray film.

    The problem is that at teh moment the front end now lags well behind the forum and needs bringing into line. I'm sure there ae people here who would volunteer to help, and maybe it needs Moderators to ask Tuan about whether they could be responsible the addition of new articles/resources themselves.

    Ian
    No problem!

    I agree that it would be nice if the Home Page could be updated/augmented. With the other things he's working on, Tuan can sometimes be difficult to reach. Before chasing him down and imposing on his time, it would probably be best if someone can move beyond a general expression of interest to draft a concrete proposal for specific upgrades and/or additions, co-signed by collaborators who commit to working on it within a defined timeframe.

  8. #8
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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    . . . The problem is that at teh moment the front end now lags well behind the forum and needs bringing into line. I'm sure there ae people here who would volunteer to help, and maybe it needs Moderators to ask Tuan about whether they could be responsible the addition of new articles/resources themselves.

    Ian
    I'm in general agreement with your observations, Ian.

    Like eating an elephant, it's probably best done one bite at a time, or the task seems (or, actually is) overwhelming.

    Instead of "lions, tigers, and bears, oh my" we need a cadre of authors, editors and reviewers to volunteer, along with someone who has enough time to coordinate the effort over an extended period.

  9. #9

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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    It matters because, as originally envisioned by LUSENET's founder Phillip Greenspun, from whence this forum sprang, it's intended to be a useful archive of information, not a chat room. Cluttering up the database with redundant questions and answers makes it more difficult to search and adds no new information. In your school analogy, this is the textbook. Repeating the content of each chapter again and again, in random sequence, makes the book larger and larger, at the same time making it more difficult to carry around and use.

    There. I've once again answered that redundant rhetorical question, contributing to the very clutter problem I describe.

    Fortunately, this is not a commercial site. Maximizing traffic doesn't need to be a goal. There would be nothing wrong with not talking about those topics unless new or revised information were available that could be added to them. That and an occasional genuinely new topic; we haven't exhausted every facet yet.

    There's massive blah, blah, blah in the world. Not talking for a while might be a good thing.
    Perhaps you could compile a list of forum threads that are FAQ and create a sticky with a list of links to each FAQ thread?

    This would allow for the current desire of many to utilize this as a chat room, while also honoring the original purpose.

    The list could be added to/updated/edited as needed?

    It could be added as a kind of "resources" section?

    You're really good at identifying the often asked questions, and I know that it might take some effort but perhaps this is a way to alleviate the frustration and allow you to also reference the FAQ list for new members or people who are asking "the same old questions?

    I think there's already a FAQ? but I mean a more thorough one?

    Would you be willing to compile that Sal?

    Just a thought.

    ~Stone

  10. #10

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    Re: Forum Growth.....or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    ...I think there's already a FAQ? but I mean a more thorough one?

    Would you be willing to compile that Sal?...
    With the highly effective search capability available to anyone via Google, I find an FAQ approach obsolete for a field as broad as large format photography. Thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks.

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