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Thread: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

  1. #1
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    It's pretty well known that with their 1867 Patent Portrait lenses, Dallmeyer refined and reversed the Petzval's rear air-spaced group. I've heard some other manufacturers later did the same. The Vitax may be one; Wollensak called it "an improved Petzval formula" and "a modification of the Petzval formula", but they may have been referring to the diffusion dial or some other refinement.

    Does anyone know of other Petzval's that were designed to have their rear group reversed, as Dallmeyer did?
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    A very good discussion to bring up.

    I don't think there are any French or German lookalikes, although they may have the patent pair without the soft adjustment. A number of French makers had the extension/contraction of the main barrel as softness control (for instance, Darlot's Universal). Just as the B&L Portrait series rear adjustment moved moved the complete cell.

    Patent protection was only granted for a limited period in the 19th century. Perhaps someone could illuminate this factor?

  3. #3

    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    The Hyatt Special Portrait Lens was a Dallmeyer copy, as was the Wollensak Royal portrait, Vitax, Ilex Acme Portrait (Vitax copy), Bausch & Lomb Portrait Series A and Series C, (not sure about Unar). I am sure there are many more.

    Berliner should be able to help with this. He probably has all these and can check first hand

    References : http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses2.html http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses3.html http://piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogs...raitlenses.htm

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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    The unar is a classic dialyt type, I think. Probably the inspiration for the Graf Vaiable.
    The B&L portrait series A may have the Dallmeyer rear cell, but soft adjustment is whole cell movement.

  5. #5

    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    I think Mark's question is which lenses have the Dallmeyer Petzval layout not necessarily the Dallmeyer diffusion method ?

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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    Mark, I've seen very few with the "thick" in the rear, as the Dallmeyers. Like we're saying in this thread, it seems to be a few of the American companies, later (none of the early American Radial drives was this way). And since B&L or Wollensak made most of the F3.8 and F5 Portrait lenses in the early 1900s, it stands to reason a rebranded lens would be the same, whether labeled Hyatt or the dozen other big photographic resellers that bought their lenses.

    My question to you is does your Gundlach Petzval Portrait lens have the Dallmeyer ordering? They are another US company that I think actually manufactured their own lenses.

    Here are two interesting patents by Gundlach, one for a Petzval Mod (but not the Dallmeyer ordering).
    https://www.google.com/patents/US212099
    https://www.google.com/patents/US442251

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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    duplicate....mod please delete...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 26300293666_be4af0ca91_o.jpg  

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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    Here's a diagram of the Unar, which is really a "pre-tessar" design.

  9. #9

    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    The 1890 Gundlach patent lens is seen here http://piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogs...dlachlp303.htm

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  10. #10
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Re: Which Petzvals have the Dallmeyer modification?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCHarrison View Post
    Berliner should be able to help with this. He probably has all these and can check first hand
    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    My question to you is does your Gundlach Petzval Portrait lens have the Dallmeyer ordering?
    One problem is, over the years so many of these lenses have been disassembled for cleaning, then reassembled wrong. Some of us are probably re-configuring lenses with the Dallmeyer layout into the classic Petzval layout, if someone hasn't already beat us to it, so we can't really trust the assembly of the lenses as they are now. So really, the only way to be sure is to have a reliable list of which are assembled one way, and which are assembled the other way. Dan's list in post #3 is a good start.

    Garrett, my Gundlach-Manhatten Series A Portrait No. 5, (15 inch Focus F:5) has the classic ordering, but I'm not sure if I trust that to be correct. My Vesta also has the classic order of assembly, but was Wollensak using both configurations (Dallmeyer's for the Vitax, classic for the Vesta) simultaneously?

    On a connected side note, does a Petzval being marked for diffusion indicate it was of the Dallmeyer configuration?
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

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