Questions from a newbie

[FredrickSummers]

Hey everyone! I have read the main site cover to cover now. I purchased via eBay a Horseman HD just yesterday and am VERY excited to get started with LF! I have just a few questions, please don't flame me if these are "bad" questions, I am openly admitting being a newbie. I have done my research, but ask for individual advice as this board seems full of very knowledge (and sometimes smart ass from much reading of the forum ) individuals! I'm sure many more questions will arise over time, but I try to keep my posts low as so much information can be found via search!

1) Does anyone have any tips on buying used film holders? There are thousands on eBay, KEH has a handfull, B&H, etc. However just getting started, I'd like to have at least a few (thinking 4-5?) reliable holders. What I read is they are pretty much all identical, but I'm not real sure if there is anything that can be done to be sure you buy good ones (work smooth and don't leak light!) online.

2) Lopues. I read many threads here on different suggestions, but most all had dead links and I was able to find some of them via google. This one came up a number of times: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._5x_Loupe.html Though I don't want to scrach the ground glass, so the plastic of that does concern me a bit. Is that still considered a good one (wrapped in black tape) or is there something else I should look at? The one I purchased has the back curtain option thing of Horseman, so I'm going to try to use that before getting a cloth to go over me and see how that goes first. I'm thinking I may need a longer one for that. There are a few on eBay that look decent, but are all from China and around $90 so not positive of the quality.

3) Film: Due to the prices of film and the likelihood of some failures when starting, I think I will start with B/W. I've shot and like Delta 100 on 35mm as well as Acros. My main 35mm B/W is TriX, but its quite pricey for 4x5 compared to the Ilford films. Anything I should know different then 35mm with these (other then the grain being less apparent)? This brings me to #4

4) I currently process film with a Patterson System tank (the 2 reel), so it looks like I need another tank for 4x5. I'm looking at this as its very similar to what I am used to. My main developer is Rodenol, and feedback/pointers for this tank/reel setup? I haven't read much about 4x5 shooters using Rodenol, is there a reason for that? I'm looking at adding DDX to my mix too.

5) Anything I'm missing from this list: Film back(s), cable release (short and locking), loupe, tripod? That I need to look out (camera has the lens I wanted, Rodenstock 135mm -N as well)

6) How hard is it to shoot FP100C? Is it just like putting a different filmholder on (the fuji holder) or is it much more complex? I think that having quick feedback while learning may help, though I could be way off on this.

I do plan on shooting color quite often, and Velvia 50 is my favorite film, so that's a hurdle I will have to deal with soon-ish. I shoot mostly landscapes.

Thank you all for any advice and I'm glad to be part of the community!

[Luis-F-S]

1) Does anyone have any tips on buying used film holders?

2) Lopues. I read many threads here on different suggestions, but most all had dead links and I was able to find some of them via google.

3) Film: My main 35mm B/W is TriX, but its quite pricey for 4x5 compared to the Ilford films.

4) I currently process film with a Patterson System tank (the 2 reel), so it looks like I need another tank for 4x5.

5) Anything I'm missing from this list: Film back(s), cable release (short and locking), loupe, tripod? That I need to look out (camera has the lens I wanted, Rodenstock 135mm -N as well)

6) How hard is it to shoot FP100C? Is it just like putting a different filmholder on (the fuji holder) or is it much more complex? I think that having quick feedback while learning may help, though I could be way off on this.

I do plan on shooting color quite often, and Velvia 50 is my favorite film, so that's a hurdle I will have to deal with soon-ish. I shoot mostly landscapes.

Thank you all for any advice and I'm glad to be part of the community!

#1 This website or the auction site. Get 5-10 of the modern plastic Lisco, Fidelity, etc. All made by the same people. Load them with enlarging paper to make sure no leaks. Get the ones with the white tab plastic dark slides, they are the newer ones so less chance of light leaks. You should be able to get them for around 5/$35 or so on the 'bay.
#2. I use a 4x Toyo loupe. It has a rubber bottom. I also had a set of 5x reading glasses made, which is normally what I use (Fred Picker's suggestion).
#3. I'd use 4x5 Tri-X, or Ilford. Not the cheapest, but if you want cheap stick with 35 or digital.
#4. Can't help you, I develop in 1 gal tanks on hangers with HC-110. Works for me. You can tray develop and when you get tired of scratching film, you'll find a different system, but most of your first 100 or 1000 negatives you probably won't want to keep anyway. No experience with the Jobo etc. systems.
#5. If starting out, I'd get a 210 Caltar as the first lens, whatever you buy, you probably won't keep anyway and at least the Caltar is cheap. For your second lens I'd get a 120 or 121 Super Angulon. Since you already own a 135 use it instead of the 120. For field work that should be wide enough, if you find you need something wider, you can always get a 90 Caltar, SA or Grandagon. I like the Pentax Digital Spotmeter and have two of the Zone VI modified ones. Get a good spot meter and use it. Also get a copy of The Zone VI Workshop on the 'bay and read it! Best $4 you'll ever spend.
#6. Have no idea or experience with this.
Most of the LF color film I've shot was chrome for architectural & interiors work.

Have fun!

L

Ps. too much research will only confuse you. Go out and make images.

[rbultman]

4) consider getting the MOD54 for use with the Paterson 1 liter tank. This will be closer to what you are used too. Sacrifice a few sheets of film, practice in the light, then in the dark. It can be a little tricky to load. Or, consider the "taco" method.

Rodinal is fine if you are comfortable with that.

Try to make as few changes in your process. You can always try new films or developers later.

[plapczynski]

Great questions from another beginner!

[fishbulb]

1) Does anyone have any tips on buying used film holders? There are thousands on eBay, KEH has a handfull, B&H, etc. However just getting started, I'd like to have at least a few (thinking 4-5?) reliable holders. What I read is they are pretty much all identical, but I'm not real sure if there is anything that can be done to be sure you buy good ones (work smooth and don't leak light!) online.

Any of the modern Fidelity, Lisco, etc. The older designs with metal handles are good, but heavier. I like Fidelity Elite's myself - bought a big batch of them on eBay. They have a white bar on them that you can write in pencil and then erase later. So I can write down what film is in there and any notes on the shot after I take it.

2) Lopues. I read many threads here on different suggestions, but most all had dead links and I was able to find some of them via google. This one came up a number of times: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._5x_Loupe.html Though I don't want to scrach the ground glass, so the plastic of that does concern me a bit. Is that still considered a good one (wrapped in black tape) or is there something else I should look at? The one I purchased has the back curtain option thing of Horseman, so I'm going to try to use that before getting a cloth to go over me and see how that goes first. I'm thinking I may need a longer one for that. There are a few on eBay that look decent, but are all from China and around $90 so not positive of the quality.

4-5x is about right. $90 is too much. I'd call Blue Moon Camera in Portland, OR (bluemooncamera.com) and see if they have any of their custom plastic loupes for large format in stock. Should be about $10-20. They are clear plastic and about 2" tall, 2" in diameter. Best loupe I've used and I have about a half dozen of them.

For a dark cloth there are many solutions. Some people just use their jacket, but then you have to take off the jacket. Some people get some fabric at a sewing store. Some people stretch a black t-shirt over the ground glass. On a Sinar camera, and some others, you can attach a bellows to the ground glass, making a nice shade. I typically use the jacket method myself. You can also buy a dark cloth online, new or used.

3) Film: Due to the prices of film and the likelihood of some failures when starting, I think I will start with B/W. I've shot and like Delta 100 on 35mm as well as Acros. My main 35mm B/W is TriX, but its quite pricey for 4x5 compared to the Ilford films. Anything I should know different then 35mm with these (other then the grain being less apparent)? This brings me to #4

Delta 100 is a great film on 4x5. Fine grain, not too spendy. Ilford FP4 is nice too. Kodak films do tend to be the most expensive these days after their price increases.

Ilford HP5+ if you want ISO 400 or more. It can be pushed to ISO 3200 if you want, with very little grain compared to 35mm HP5+ pushed that far. A very versatile film for 4x5.

I am trying out some New55 Atomic X right now, which is pretty affordable newer B&W sheet film.

4) I currently process film with a Patterson System tank (the 2 reel), so it looks like I need another tank for 4x5. I'm looking at this as its very similar to what I am used to. My main developer is Rodenol, and feedback/pointers for this tank/reel setup? I haven't read much about 4x5 shooters using Rodenol, is there a reason for that? I'm looking at adding DDX to my mix too.

Lots of 4x5 shooters use Rodinal. I can't speak to it much myself.

No tank or developing system is perfect - they all have tradeoffs. I like the Nikor tank (not related to Nikon Nikkor) and the modern (I would say improved) version of the Nikor tank is the BW King tank. It is not the easiest system to learn but it is possible to get great negatives with it if you follow the instructions.

Mod 54 makes nice tanks as well, different design, but well-regarded.

Some people like the tube-style system of a Jobo tank or BTZS tubes - you get really clean negatives with the fewest edge issues this way. Probably the easiest way to get really nice negatives from my experience.

There are also the old black plastic Yankee and FR tanks etc. They are cheap and load 12 sheets, but are more challenging to get consistent results in than a Nikor-style, Mod 54-style, or tube-style developing methods, in my opinion.

5) Anything I'm missing from this list: Film back(s), cable release (short and locking), loupe, tripod? That I need to look out (camera has the lens I wanted, Rodenstock 135mm -N as well)

Do you have a light meter? There are two basic types - a spot meter and an ambient light meter. I would argue the spot meter is superior, but not necessary in a lot of situations. But when you need it, it's really great. You look through the eyepiece and can meter each section of the scene, then you know how big the exposure range is in your scene and can set up your zones quite easily.

135 is a nice focal length. A 90 and 210 are good complements, each being a 1.5x decrease/increase from 135. I don't know why you'd get a 120... pretty similar angle of view to a 135, and the Rodenstock is a good lens.

6) How hard is it to shoot FP100C? Is it just like putting a different filmholder on (the fuji holder) or is it much more complex? I think that having quick feedback while learning may help, though I could be way off on this.

I do plan on shooting color quite often, and Velvia 50 is my favorite film, so that's a hurdle I will have to deal with soon-ish. I shoot mostly landscapes.

Thank you all for any advice and I'm glad to be part of the community!

I can't speak to that one. Color is a bit more difficult to use, especially to scan. I prefer color negative over color transparencies for the dynamic range and tolerance of missed exposures. If you plan on shooting Velvia and other slide/transparency films, I would get a spot meter.

[FredrickSummers]

#1 This website or the auction site. Get 5-10 of the modern plastic Lisco, Fidelity, etc. All made by the same people. Load them with enlarging paper to make sure no leaks. Get the ones with the white tab plastic dark slides, they are the newer ones so less chance of light leaks. You should be able to get them for around 5/$35 or so on the 'bay.
#2. I use a 4x Toyo loupe. It has a rubber bottom. I also had a set of 5x reading glasses made, which is normally what I use (Fred Picker's suggestion).
#3. I'd use 4x5 Tri-X, or Ilford. Not the cheapest, but if you want cheap stick with 35 or digital.
#4. Can't help you, I develop in 1 gal tanks on hangers with HC-110. Works for me. You can tray develop and when you get tired of scratching film, you'll find a different system, but most of your first 100 or 1000 negatives you probably won't want to keep anyway. No experience with the Jobo etc. systems.
#5. If starting out, I'd get a 210 Caltar as the first lens, whatever you buy, you probably won't keep anyway and at least the Caltar is cheap. For your second lens I'd get a 120 or 121 Super Angulon. Since you already own a 135 use it instead of the 120. For field work that should be wide enough, if you find you need something wider, you can always get a 90 Caltar, SA or Grandagon. I like the Pentax Digital Spotmeter and have two of the Zone VI modified ones. Get a good spot meter and use it. Also get a copy of The Zone VI Workshop on the 'bay and read it! Best $4 you'll ever spend.
#6. Have no idea or experience with this.
Most of the LF color film I've shot was chrome for architectural & interiors work.

Have fun!

L

Ps. too much research will only confuse you. Go out and make images.

Thanks for your help Luis-F-S. I won't be able to see the section on this site for a month from what I understand, so I will just hope to find some decent ones on fleaBay.
I don't think the Toyo is still made, at least I can't find it. 4x seems to be the most common range though, thanks for the suggestions. Reading glasses wouldn't work for me though as I have glasses I have to use now and use just one eye for checking focus (otherwise my eye issues really get in my way), so looking for a decent loupe only.
I'm actually mostly a wide shooter, so looking at my 2nd lens being much wider then the 135. My #1 Focal length in 35mm is 35mm, followed very closely by 24mm, then is a range of 70-105mm for third.

Thanks, and your last comment is a great help! I have the tendency to over research everything!

4) consider getting the MOD54 for use with the Paterson 1 liter tank. This will be closer to what you are used too. Sacrifice a few sheets of film, practice in the light, then in the dark. It can be a little tricky to load. Or, consider the "taco" method.

Rodinal is fine if you are comfortable with that.

Try to make as few changes in your process. You can always try new films or developers later.

The tank I linked is the MOD54 rack thing in the Patterson tank. Thanks for your endorsement of it, I do like how familiar it is and many of the reviews said they liked it as it was easy to get even development (not something I've had to mess with much on 35mm...

Great questions from another beginner!

Thanks!

[fishbulb]

I'm actually mostly a wide shooter, so looking at my 2nd lens being much wider then the 135. My #1 Focal length in 35mm is 35mm, followed very closely by 24mm, then is a range of 70-105mm for third.

More or less, a 90 and a 135 will get you a 24mm and 35mm angle of view. Some would say a 75 and 120 are closer though.

It depends on how you convert the 3:2 aspect ratio of 35mm to the 5:4 aspect ratio, and how much space you want to leave for edge imperfections - handling, development marks, film holder scratches etc.

I have some conversion charts here that may be helpful - one two three

Another important trade-off is coverage - if you intend to use a lot of movements, most 75mm lenses cover less than 90mm lenses, etc.

And yet another trade-off is usability. Lenses close to the extreme short end of your camera's capabilities may require a bag bellows or a recessed lens board. Most 4x5 cameras greatly benefit from a bag bellows for lenses wider than 90mm.

Conversely, lenses close to the long end of your bellows reach may give you limited ability to focus closer (which needs bellows extension) or limited ability to make movements (since the bellows are stretched out).

Really though, before you start accumulating lenses, go out and use the one you've got. 135 is a great focal length, very usable and natural feeling.

[Luis-F-S]

Get a pair of bifocal glasses made with your prescription top and 5x reading bottom. L

[biedron]

5) Anything I'm missing from this list: Film back(s), cable release (short and locking), loupe, tripod? That I need to look out (camera has the lens I wanted, Rodenstock 135mm -N as well)

A light meter was already mentioned, but if you plan on shooting Velvia 50 I would strongly recommend a spot meter. I have a Sekonic 558 that I am very happy with but there are others that no doubt do equally well.

For landscape with Velvia 50 you will probably also want a set of graduated neutral density filters, like the ones Lee makes. For 4x5 and larger you can probably stick with just the "hard" GNDs - as format size goes up, the hardness of the line seems to go down.

A tripod is pretty essential for landscapes.

I do plan on shooting color quite often, and Velvia 50 is my favorite film, so that's a hurdle I will have to deal with soon-ish. I shoot mostly landscapes.

I don't think it is that hard to deal with Velvia 50. Just learn to pick mid tones - often rocks or vegetation for the landscaper - and know that V50 only has a margin of (roughly) 2 stops above and below mid tone. With your spot meter get a reading for the mid tone, then "probe" around the scene with the meter and note the range from brightest to darkest. If more that +/- 2 stops, you can either 1) go home, 2) sacrifice the brightest tones (not usually a good idea) 3) sacrifice the darkest tones (emphasize "negative space" in your image), or 4) use your GNDs to bring the brightest tones into range.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Drew Bedo]

The most important thing is to get out and shoot . . .learning from your mistakes. As you gain experience, you will figure out how best to work with the equipment you have, keeping in mind that there is often more than one way to get something done (shoulder bag vs backpack, dark cloth vs hood, changing bag vs tent etc)— there is no one "best" way to do most things.