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Thread: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

  1. #1

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    Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    When contact printing using a UV light requiring process, I have cyanotypes and carbon printing in mind, how do you apply corrections like burning and dodging?

    I've done a little burning and dodging with some negatives on visible light paper where exposures went maybe 30-60 sec. But, I'm not sure how I'd do it under UV lights w/o a welding mask and suntan lotion etc as exposures tend to start at 45-60 seconds and climb towards 10 minutes with the new cyanotype.

    Im told some of these processes are somewhat self masking in that the exposed areas resist further UV interactions making it harder (but not impossible) to over expose. I've seen this with the New cyanotypes recipe of Dr. Ware. Or at least I think so.

    Is this also true of carbon printing?

    Also, people talk about a long or short tonal scale. I'm still trying to get a grip on all these photo terms. If I get a smooth range of tones from almost black navy blue down to paper base, is that a long scale? I can with XRay film, Pyrocat HD and the new cyanotype assuming a pretty dense negative and a few minutes under the 6 t8 bug zapper bulbs.

    These negatives are dense enough I suspect they'd be hard to print well on Azo or regular MG silver based paper.

    Part of what I'm considering is making enlarged negatives which would allow corrections but that seems like a pain. But then so is the idea of even more enormous cameras. Or a lot of time tinkering at a computer and enlarging with a scanner and inkjet.

    So, how do you all handle this for alt process especially carbon printing?

    I don't want to make a huge camera and wish I'd just made bigger negs from 4x5's or 5x7's

  2. #2

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    I am presently in the midst of this. I took the course from Bob Carnie over new years and demonstrated to my satisfaction that inkjet printed negatives are quite satisfactory for alternate processes. My purpose is to scan a finished print and duplicate it on a larger size contact print. I just finished my Palladium correction curves tonight and am quite chuffed.
    Bill
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

  3. #3

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Mark View Post
    When contact printing using a UV light requiring process, I have cyanotypes and carbon printing in mind, how do you apply corrections like burning and dodging?

    Part of what I'm considering is making enlarged negatives which would allow corrections but that seems like a pain. But then so is the idea of even more enormous cameras. Or a lot of time tinkering at a computer and enlarging with a scanner and inkjet.
    You can make excellent carbon prints with either large negatives made in the camera (and yes, you can dodge and burn with masks, tissue paper, etc.), or you can make great carbon prints with enlarged digital negatives from 4X5, 5X7 and even larger camera negatives. I used to print carbon only with LF and ULF negatives made in the camera, but whenever I want to print those negatives now I prefer to scan them, apply corrections in PS, and print a negative on OHP with an inkjet printer. If you love printing carbon you will love the methods either way.

    But if you think of this as a pain, well, you are in for a lot of it, because making large, high quality carbon prints, can be challenging. As the ghost of Hank Williams said to an aspiring country singer, in the lyrics of David Allan Coe in "The Ride"

    "Cause if you're big star bound let me warn ya, it's a long, hard ride"

    Check out the lyrics at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2hJLa0T-Sw

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    "These negatives are dense enough I suspect they'd be hard to print well on Azo or regular MG silver based paper."
    Overall density is not a long scale necessarily. Thin shadows and more dense than usual highlights make for a longer scale negative to be used with many of the alternative processes. I, like many others, under-expose my shadows a little and then use more development to raise the density of highlights when making negatives to be used to print Palladium,Van Dyke Brown, salt and other processes.

  5. #5
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    Sandy is right. Carbon printing is not for the faint at heart. But once learned the sky is the limit!

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    I don't mind hard work and some frustration if the reward is there. I believe it is in carbon printing. Bonus: failures aren't made with noble metal atoms that cost a fortune.

    I can imagine how masks can help burn in areas. Can you elaborate on the tissue paper?

  7. #7

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    You just crush the tissue paper in your hand and place it over the areas that you want to dodge. You will need to move it around a bit during the long exposure to get the edges of the burn blurred.

    The mask for dodging could be a previous print that had underexposed areas. Cut those areas out and place the print two or three inches above the new print as you expose it. Again, move the mask around a bit during the exposure to avoid hard lines.

    The principles are the same as when dodging and burning silver prints, but the technique has to be different because exposing times are so long.

    The dodging and burning techniques will only work with exposure units where the light is above the contact printing frame or vacuum unit.

    Sandy



    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Mark View Post
    I don't mind hard work and some frustration if the reward is there. I believe it is in carbon printing. Bonus: failures aren't made with noble metal atoms that cost a fortune.

    I can imagine how masks can help burn in areas. Can you elaborate on the tissue paper?
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  8. #8
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    Why not just good ole red neocreosin retouching dye? You can build it up quite gently and dilute, in effect creating a perfectly repeatable dodge/burn effect on the
    back of film, then if needed remove it with alcohol. Or if you're afraid to do that, just register another piece of mylar with the dye on it.

  9. #9

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cowanw View Post
    I am presently in the midst of this. I took the course from Bob Carnie over new years and demonstrated to my satisfaction that inkjet printed negatives are quite satisfactory for alternate processes. My purpose is to scan a finished print and duplicate it on a larger size contact print. I just finished my Palladium correction curves tonight and am quite chuffed.
    Bill, is there a way to know the different correction curves for each process? Or is that a matter of understanding the best characteristics in a neg for each type of alt process and then correcting the curves based on your experiences?
    Thanks!

  10. #10

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    Re: Burning and dodging for Carbon Printing?? Or other UV contact printing.

    Ron Reeder's book, Digital Negatives for Palladium and other Alternate Processes, is an intuitive set of instructions, with a standard test step wedge, that can be, with a bit of imagination, used with your scanner and photoshop.
    I am using an older Hewlett Packard pro scanner CS5 and an Epson 3880 printer.
    Each process and indeed each paper should have it's own curve.
    Bill
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

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