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Thread: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

  1. #21

    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    I primarily use Pyrocat HD in highly dilute semi stand mode at this stage in my gaseous burst process. I spend considerable time with Alistair Inglis assisting him dial in his tanks in larger formats. Conventional developers just don't get me enough RPM's in print mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    Michael, I am not trying to reinvent anything and have not read Gordon Hutchings Book of Pyro.

    Once I found the Kodak data I immediately moved in that direction. My Gas Burst set points are identical, but my developer is not. I may go to a replenishment developer system in the future.

    I will be using N2 exclusively asap, 2 weeks.

    I am curious about your developer. Are you using the same batch for long periods or mixing fresh often? Will you share what you currently do?

    Your View Camera Magazine post was key in sending me down this path. There is very little data available. So I am searching for all I can find.

    Thank you.

  2. #22

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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Went through another couple of threads on the topic, post Michael's reply. Loads of Info here, but I get the feeling that even with all that, this is something where experience is needed to actually make (practical) sense of the info. While I'm currently in the middle of rejigging my enlarger light source, (once that's sorted out) this will be the next thing I would attempt.

    One question though - does it need only high volume processing for the Gas burst process to pay off?

  3. #23

    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by analoguey View Post
    Went through another couple of threads on the topic, post Michael's reply. Loads of Info here, but I get the feeling that even with all that, this is something where experience is needed to actually make (practical) sense of the info. While I'm currently in the middle of rejigging my enlarger light source, (once that's sorted out) this will be the next thing I would attempt.

    One question though - does it need only high volume processing for the Gas burst process to pay off?
    I say that it is not necessary to only have high volume of processing to make the process pay off. One should take into the consideration a number of other issues into proper context. My particular views on this subject center around both simplicity and repeatability of the process taking out as many variables as possible. With gas burst there is really only one moving part and that is the solenoid valve opening and closing allowing the N2 (or air) into the plenum base. No rotating drums, manual tray or even brush agitation, or dipping and dunking. Once I confirmed that I could use pyrocat in this process I was all in. The Reduced Agitation Process (primarily controlling extreme + and - development) is highly effective in using minimal volumes of pyrocat as well as small quantities of N2. Quite honestly the challenge is not in the process but in finding older 3.5 gallon tanks, plenum/hanger combinations and solenoid valve/timer controller panels. I was fortunate to have scrounged up a number while the getting was good but most of this equipment was likely tossed out when it was not selling. Having the ability to process a large batch is great but not necessary since even smaller process runs make sense.

    I did run across an article on the development of Xtol where Kodak used replenishing techniques in their testing and was going to explore and refine this technique further, but found a point where I was pleased at what conclusions I was able to arrive at after a long frustrating journey and pulled off the side of the road to get some results in the done column. I will hunt up that article and post it if anyone is interested. I will continue to reiterate the need for safe recharging of air into the darkroom when using N2 gas burst so a buildup of this inert gas does not fill the darkroom and create an oxygen deprivation working environment. Please BE SAFE!.

  4. #24

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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    I sure agree about the Nitrogen is cheap we use these same types of cylinders of Nitrogen at work to pressurize 250 gallon tanks of polyurethane chemicals. They last a long time, If you are using this setup for 30 minutes a day Developer and fix I would venture 1 cylinder would last a year. TF-5 is 58% ammonium Thiosulfate, ie Kodak Rapid fix, it's been this way since G. Eastman was running the show. Kodak F-5 stinks, Kodak F-6 doesn't stink as bad. Both use good old sodium thiosulfate same. Ammonium Thiosulfate is used in I would say almost every liquid fixer formula out there. And I would say not to be rude but fixer chemistry has not changed in over a century, THERE! This outta make everyone go nuts:-) Just my opinion not very humble Don't shoot the messenger
    Peace!

  5. #25
    Jac@stafford.net's Avatar
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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Regarding the solenoid that releases N2, a super strong current sapper is not necessary.
    Electrical hydraulic and water valves can be like the one in your clothes washer: it does
    not make a single powerful pull or push of a valve, but vibrates instead.
    .

  6. #26
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Update nearly 6 years later

    I never bought N2 cylinder as I don't need it, I do have the correct new valve for N2. I have handled 1000's of N2 tanks in my time at work, in tiny spaces WITH great ventilation at a huge exchange rate, I worried more about knocking the valve off...that is impressive, I saw the movie

    Been running on tiny quiet air compressor, just bought a second one so I can have one in DR and my shed. The new one is even quieter, same Brand California Air Compressor

    My process has not changed, 1 Gallon SS covered tanks with air plenum, 4 sheets 8X10, 8 Sheets 5X7, 16 4X5 on KODAK hangers

    DIY timer air controller still running

    I use Rodinol 1-100, water stop no agit, TF5 only, TF% seems to outlast me, I dump on a schedule. I test TF5 before every use, it clears fast, air bubbles seem to have no effect

    Rodinol One Shot exhausts at 20 minutes, I often use 7 to 10 minutes depending on film, all tanks are in water bath at 20C controlled by slow flow HASS Valve

    Wash is in same line slow plenum flow

    I really like using the system. I hang all films to dry on KODAK double pinpoint hangers over my sink and wait for morning, door shut

    ULF is done one sheet at a time in trays

    I love my 2X3 sheet film tiny tanks, I even dry the film right in them
    Tin Can

  7. #27

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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Update nearly 6 years later

    I never bought N2 cylinder as I don't need it, I do have the correct new valve for N2. I have handled 1000's of N2 tanks in my time at work, in tiny spaces WITH great ventilation at a huge exchange rate, I worried more about knocking the valve off...that is impressive, I saw the movie

    Been running on tiny quiet air compressor, just bought a second one so I can have one in DR and my shed. The new one is even quieter, same Brand California Air Compressor

    My process has not changed, 1 Gallon SS covered tanks with air plenum, 4 sheets 8X10, 8 Sheets 5X7, 16 4X5 on KODAK hangers

    DIY timer air controller still running

    I use Rodinol 1-100, water stop no agit, TF5 only, TF% seems to outlast me, I dump on a schedule. I test TF5 before every use, it clears fast, air bubbles seem to have no effect

    Rodinol One Shot exhausts at 20 minutes, I often use 7 to 10 minutes depending on film, all tanks are in water bath at 20C controlled by slow flow HASS Valve

    Wash is in same line slow plenum flow

    I really like using the system. I hang all films to dry on KODAK double pinpoint hangers over my sink and wait for morning, door shut

    ULF is done one sheet at a time in trays

    I love my 2X3 sheet film tiny tanks, I even dry the film right in them
    Hello Mr Can.
    I'm over in Iowa, been following your exploits over time. I have 2 gallon tanks with a plenum. I have a bunch of 1 gallon tanks, beautiful stuff. Where can I get gas plenums for the 1 gallon tanks? I would try to fab my own but that's not going to happen. I can't bend the tubing and the gas holes (that's funny) are so tiny.
    I have a huge Jobo machine and tanks, but that's no fun. I have a Kodak Gaseous Burst Agitation timer, nos, with the Kodak supplied solenoid valve. I've got a setup for nitrogen too, but I wouldn't use that unless I fiddled with color.

    I need a contact at Arkay or similar.

  8. #28

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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Hey Duolab123, before you spend all kinds of money on this silliness, consider an expert drum for your Jobo. While not as jet propulsion lab as a nifty nitrogen burst system, if you are truly interested in the quality of the results I am almost certain nitrogen burst development gives poor uniformity in comparison to a Jobo. Just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duolab123 View Post
    Hello Mr Can.
    I'm over in Iowa, been following your exploits over time. I have 2 gallon tanks with a plenum. I have a bunch of 1 gallon tanks, beautiful stuff. Where can I get gas plenums for the 1 gallon tanks? I would try to fab my own but that's not going to happen. I can't bend the tubing and the gas holes (that's funny) are so tiny.
    I have a huge Jobo machine and tanks, but that's no fun. I have a Kodak Gaseous Burst Agitation timer, nos, with the Kodak supplied solenoid valve. I've got a setup for nitrogen too, but I wouldn't use that unless I fiddled with color.

    I need a contact at Arkay or similar.

  9. #29

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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duolab123 View Post
    Hello Mr Can.
    I'm over in Iowa, been following your exploits over time. I have 2 gallon tanks with a plenum. I have a bunch of 1 gallon tanks, beautiful stuff. Where can I get gas plenums for the 1 gallon tanks? I would try to fab my own but that's not going to happen. I can't bend the tubing and the gas holes (that's funny) are so tiny.
    I have a huge Jobo machine and tanks, but that's no fun. I have a Kodak Gaseous Burst Agitation timer, nos, with the Kodak supplied solenoid valve. I've got a setup for nitrogen too, but I wouldn't use that unless I fiddled with color.

    I need a contact at Arkay or similar.
    Omega Arkay, ask for Jeff.

  10. #30
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Gas Burst Chemistry Oxidation Questions

    Prove it

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Hey Duolab123, before you spend all kinds of money on this silliness, consider an expert drum for your Jobo. While not as jet propulsion lab as a nifty nitrogen burst system, if you are truly interested in the quality of the results I am almost certain nitrogen burst development gives poor uniformity in comparison to a Jobo. Just a thought.
    Tin Can

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