Bear spray when hiking into bear country – yes, no, maybe?

[ic-racer]

To put earlier (carefree) remarks about black bears into perspective, let's talk brutal facts.

Since 2010 in U.S. + Canada:
--Human deaths by black bear: 6
--Human deaths by brown bear (grizzly): 11

These numbers should cause one to reflect that black bears, despite their comparative docility, can also be deadly.

They also underscore the extreme rarity of fatal bear attacks of any kind.

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Interesting note: the most recent death by polar bear was in 1999.

97 deaths from West Nile Virus in USA lower 48 in 2014 (mosquito bite). I'll carry mosquito repellent and stay out of bear country.

[Greg Miller]

I think you have to look at these numbers relative to the number of human/bear encounters. There are many more black bears in the US and they live not only in the wild but also in and around populated areas. There are far fewer grizzlies and most live in remote areas, so there are far fewer encounters with humans. But, point taken, black bears can be dangerous too if you are not careful around them.

Good points. Also need to consider that Moose are far mar dangerous than bears. And how many people carry Moose spray?

Look at NJ with the most dense bear population in the country (total population of 2,500 bears in the state) and the most dense human population. Lots of bears close to lots of stupid humans who put their trash out. Perfect scenario for bear/human conflict. One person died from a bear attack in 2014. The previous death was in 1852. New York,also with a very large black bear population has had exactly one death (a baby left unattended in a stroller in the Catskills). That added to the number of personal close encounters I have had with black bears over the past 25 years, leaves me with little fear of a black bear attack. Could it happen? Yes. But there's a lot of other things that are much likely to kill me than that. SO I;d rather carry a fire starter than a can of bear spray.

[Heroique]

Any "close-encounter" stories from people who carry (or ridicule) bear spray?

Only once have I surprised a bear at very close range – a mature black bear in the North Cascades of Wash. state (which is also grizzly country the closer you get to Canada). Exploring a creek bank, I rounded a granite boulder and surprised the bear, 10 feet away, on the other side. The bear immediately stood up, and in the same motion, twisted around and darted away in a panic. If I had cornered it, or if the bear had been a sow w/ cubs, I might have used my spray for the first time. And who knows, maybe the last.

There's nothing like a real experience to make statistics sink into oblivion, no matter what they suggest. Which is to say, I carry bear spray to insure myself against the nearly 0% likelihood of ever needing it (again). The psychological benefit is deeply felt, even if not quite real.

[Greg Miller]

Any "close-encounter" stories from people who carry (or ridicule) bear spray?

Only once have I surprised a bear at very close range – a mature black bear in the North Cascades of Wash. state (which is also grizzly country the closer you get to Canada). Exploring a creek bank, I rounded a granite boulder and surprised the bear, 10 feet away, on the other side. The bear immediately stood up, and in the same motion, twisted around and darted away in a panic. If I had cornered it, or if the bear had been a sow w/ cubs, I might have used my spray for the first time. And who knows, maybe the last.

There's nothing like a real experience to make statistics sink into oblivion, no matter what they suggest. Which is to say, I carry bear spray to insure myself against the nearly 0% odds of ever needing it (again). The psychological benefit is felt, even if not quite real.

I'm also going to downplay the sow with cubs scare tactics. i have had several close encounters with a mother bear and cubs over the years, and never had the mother show any concern. I was as close as 6 feet (on two separate days) from a mother bear in Garnet Canyon in the Tetons and she could not have cared less. There were three of us on the trail with a cliff on the left. Momma bear was on our right, so we had no choice but to walk past her to get to our climbing camp. She was not the least bit concerned with our presence. Not a momma bear story, but I was hiking our of a park at dusk with my female model. We spotted a bear walking towards us (it was sniffing the ground for food). I let it get about 30 feet from us before I let it know we were there by talking to it. It immediately turned around and ran away fast. But generally its only the one year old males that have been kicked out of the den by their mothers who are so skittish. Most adult bears will check you out, and then go back to foraging. They won;t run and they won't attack. They just want to do what bears do. That's my personal experience with more close encounters than i can remember. I even had a neighborhood bear that lived in the woods behind my house. It would kill the occasional fawn, but never bothered the little kids playing in the neighborhood back yards.

Plus 99% of black bear "attacks" are bluff charges where they will scare the bejeesus out of you and then retreat at the last second and run away. It's really uncommon for a black bear to "attacK' and much more uncommon for the bear truly attack. Yes, people get scared when they unexpectedly encounter a black bear. But black bear encounters aren't really that uncommon the the extremely low number of true attacks validates how low the true risk is. I'll bet most eople carrying bear spray would be too scared to even deploy in a true attack scenario. Whatever fear there is of black bears in the lower 48 is largely unfounded.

[Drew Wiley]

I've had black bears all around my campsites in Sierra backcountry in SEKI feeding on berries all nite and scratching trees, just a few yards away. Never bothered any of us. And I've taken hundreds of such trips. On the other hand, I have a pal who liked to spend time up in the canyons of northern Yosemite outside Hetchy, and the bears were utter pests. Always had to hang his food in a tree. What's the difference? Those Yosemite bears were descended from Yogi bear types in Yos Valley who were habituated to handouts and pilfering garbage. It became a Yogi Bear culture. They teach their young the same habits. In SEKI, a bad bear gets run off, and if he comes back, gets shot. Now some of those bad Yos bears are getting deported into LA Natl Forest, where they're breaking into cabins, or now, due to drought and heat, heading into the burbs and jumping in people's swimming pools. Can't blame 'em.

[Heroique]

There were three of us on the trail with a cliff on the left. Momma bear was on our right, so we had no choice but to walk past her to get to our climbing camp. She was not the least bit concerned with our presence.

I have to ask, was there no choice to retreat and return a little later?

Better, did you ask her how she'd feel if you walked past her and her cubs?

Here's a piece from Yellowstone NP titled: "Reacting to a bear encounter."

Some unique tips about bear spray too:

http://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bearreact.htm

Greg, you know I'm mostly joking, but I think the ranger will want to have a talk with you before you head down the trail.

Parent bears teach their young the same habits.

Yes, this is why the two Yellowstone grizzly cubs whose mother killed and ate Lance Crosby this summer are on their way to a zoo for the rest of their lives – and never back into the wild. Things might have been different had Crosby simply carried bear spray. Everyone might have survived and lived natural lives.

[Greg Miller]

I have to ask, was there no choice to retreat and return a little later?

Better, did you ask her how she'd feel if you walked past her and her cubs?

Here's a piece from Yellowstone NP titled: "Reacting to a bear encounter."

Some unique tips about bear spray too:

http://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bearreact.htm

Greg, you know I'm mostly joking, but I think the ranger will want to have a talk with you before you head down the trail.

We did not act foolishly. When we saw the mother bear (we didn't see the cubs rights away). We stopped and calmly observed. We then saw the cubs. We probably waited and watched for about 15 minutes. Given the terrain, our options were abandon our week long climbing trip or continue on the trail. The mother bear knew we were there and glanced our way occasionally but showed no signs of distress. We moved forward a bit at a time watching for signs of distress. We saw none. SHE behaved pretty much like most of the other many bear encounters I have had. Black bears have pretty obvious signs of distress or aggressiveness. But we saw none. There was never a point where we felt in danger or felt we were stressing the mother. Even at our closest position to her, she never showed a sign of distress. We all had significant experience with close-up black bear encounters in the backcountry, so we were confident with what we did. I would not recommend this approach for anyone else, especially for anyone without the real-world experience to recognize bear behaviors. Those ranger videos have to be put together for the lowest common denominator. There are always people with no common sense, that dot hings like put their 3 year old daughter on the back of a bison on Yellowstone. But we had experience, evaluated the situation, were patient, and made our choice. And again, how many people have been killed by a mother black bear with cubs? I'm to saying there is no danger. But the the public impression of the danger from black bears is seriously overblown. I've personally startled a large number of bears just by walking out the front door of my house to gett he newspaper int he morning.

A huge number of people in northern New Jersey have daily encounters with black bears. Every spring there are thousands of back bears with cubs. Every spring the one year old males get kicked out of the den and go in search of a new home. Yet despite all these bears, and mama bears with cubs, around a large human population, there has been one human death in over 150 years. So, yes, be smart and recognize the risk of danger, but also realize how infinitesimally small that danger is worry about other things than a black bear attack.

[Leszek Vogt]

http://www.nnsl.com/frames/newspapers/1997-08/aug22_97bear.html

***The description of this incident is rather raw***

Greg, sometimes there is no good reason what an animal might or might not do. In this case it appears that the malnourished bear....and who would have thought ? All the black bears I've encountered were quite docile and would rather run away than to deal with silly humans. This incident was quite a surprise to me, since I went through that spot at least twice/yr (for 3yrs)...back in the early 90's.

Les

[Wayne]

This is the result of not bringing bear spray. This bear, and more importantly the man, would both be alive today if he had brought bear spray. So if you venture into grizzly country and won't bring it for yourself, bring it for the bear that will die if you are attacked without it.

Even though I was born in Montana, I have been a city dweller most of my life.

So with that said, would someone please explain to me why it was necessary to kill the mother bear. Wasn't she most likely defending her cubs and/or territory? After all, he was invading her territory, it's not like she was seeking him out.

Yes, the man's body was partially consumed but can't it be assumed that was a natural thing for the bears to do with a dead body?

[goamules]

This thread should have been titled "I use Bear Spray, and will Defend it's Use to the Death!" Every year the BEARS! What WILL we DO? threads start. Often by the same people.

But seriously, there are thousands of man to bear encounters every year that don't lead to anything. Except a good memory of getting to see a bear. Many of us hikers and outdoorsmen can relate to seeing a bear in the wilderness, woods, or increasingly, neighborhoods. And enjoying the experience.

According to a bear attack book I read, the biggest deterrent to being attacked is to be in a group of 3 or more people. That's why bear hunters use a pack of hounds, not just one. A bear doesn't know how to handle more than one potential threat, and runs (often). Most attacks are on one person, or a "group" that actually becomes separated.

From our 1600s founding in this country, people knew that if you wander the woods alone, you are in danger. From many, many things, with no help. Americans were comfortable walking 20 miles in a day if they needed to. They didn't freeze to death, have heatstroke, or get killed by wolves or bears 2 hours from their "cars". They traveled, worked, and lived in bear (and Indian) country. If you have to be alone, you carry a big stick of some sort. Yes, I do. But mine is a firestick, not fire in a can. Longer range, more uses.