eBay and PayPal alternatives?

[koh303]

I used to sell on eBay and then quit because of unscrupulous buyers and eBay policies towards sellers. However recently I sold a Leica M8.2. The fees were eBay - 10.4%, PayPal 5.8%, free shipping 2.7%. For a total of 18.9%. Yu have to be careful with Paypal. They send you an email saying your item as sold, congratulations, blah, blah, blah and a little button - would you like to send the seller an invoice. Sure why not. Oh BTW that was another 2.9% and could run as high as 5.9%. expensive email.

I figure the local camera store would have given me almost as much for the camera without the worries of a buyer ripping me off.

You'll notice most items are now "but it now" at prices higher than on line camera stores like KEH.

http://www.fees.ebay.com/feeweb/feecalculator

http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html

This seems to tell a different story.
It seems that selling at auction does result in a fee close to 10% (including on the actual shipping cost) of the total final price.
When selling a fixed price the fee is 6% or so (in the camera/photo category), with the same as above re shipping.
If shipping internationally the shipping fee is only on the domestic shipping cost (or not at all? i get confused about that part).
If you are a TRS you get an additional 20% discount. which brings the fee down to 4.5% or so.

Paypal just announced a fee hike, which canceled all the volume discounted they offered, so they are now 2.9% and 3.9% for domestic and international respectively, across the board + 30cents per transaction.

After an item sells on Ebay you have the option to send an invoice to the buyer, in which you can add various shipping options, offer discounts etc., doing so does not affect the fee structure or cost, and if the buyer pays before you send out your invoice, it still does not affect a thing.

Offering free shipping is the sellers choice, and can be calculated into the overall desired net amount the seller wants to get. It also seems that selling at auction has some advantages and risks that should be calculated before choosing how to sell your item, considering the relative high cost of a reserve price on auctions.

[HMG]

Living in a border town gives me the option of running across the border if I decide to.
That is if Fleabay left you ship it to another address, which they don't.

Incorrect. You can set up multiple ship-to addresses in ebay. I have 3, depending on where I'll be when I expect to receive the item. One is a "hold for pickup" address at a Post Office. Perhaps you're situation is different if cross-border or using ebay's Canada site.

But if you're paying via paypal, most sellers won't ship to an "unconfirmed" address. But again, you can set up multiple confirmed addresses in paypal. I have those same 3 address in paypal.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I think this post is on topic. Regarding eBay and PayPal being a safe venue to buy/pay...

I recently purchased several items from a well-known vendor. The item descriptions on their website were incomplete and I later learned they wouldn't work for my needs. I returned them (sealed/new) per their somewhat convoluted and messy RMA process. I shipped via USPS Priority Mail with Signature Required. The warehouse signed for the package 31 July and I still don't have a full refund. There were 4 RMAs from 3 orders. They eventually refunded 1 order after many frustrating Chat Sessions with their Customer Service Agents. After getting zero help for the other 2 refunds due, I finally filed PayPal Disputes for the other two orders. Two days ago, PayPal refunded another order. There remains 1 order still not refunded because the company isn't communicating with PayPal. So, the issue with this company has been ongoing in excess of a month. I have zero faith in the company that owes me the refund but I'm hoping PayPal will resolve the problem.

My point is, with PayPal I have a way to dispute the charges unlike if I paid by money order.

[europanorama]

paypal has changed the regulation reg. low prices but high shipping costs. they will also get a provision for the latter. maybe someone can precise this or i have overread.
reg. paypal-alternative.
dont has alibaba their own system.
which one do you advise when no credit-card is available? prepaid-cards, who has that? my bank?
e.g. my bank has now bank-maestro-card. not to be confused with MAESTRO alone. the first is a combinations card. can use it on foreign countries with low fees. But not online.
what is nerving me someone(wiht two accounts) which is accumulating shipping-costs when buying multiple items. is telling he will refund just afterwards. anyone understand why this is done?

[Sirius Glass]

www.keh.com
Good return policy plus repair service if needed, not like eBay and PayPal.

[pdh]

But not much use (as a buyer) if you are not in the US, and not much use (as a seller) if you want the best achievable price for your goods.

[kleinbatavia]

Well, I just sent a paypal transfer to someone. The paypal rate for USD 225 was in excess of EUR 210! The actual spot rate would put that below USD 200. In short, paypal skimmed over 5% on the exchange rate (it was a "gift" so no costs, otherwise they would have also hit the recipient). Call me stingy, but this is simply abusive. Wish there was a valid alternative.

[pdh]

Yep I too just got nobbled as a recipient for exchange rate skim.
Ouch!

Wasn't aware that could happen.
Live and learn I suppose

[HMG]

Paypal charges for (and presumably makes a profit on) currency exchange. AFAIK, every other currency exchange business does as well. I assume you know the difference between what is typically reported as spot or mid-market rates vs. buy and sell rates.

Right now, xe.com says 1 USD is worth .886 Euro as their mid-market rate. Paypal says .864 as their conversion (buy or sell) rate. That's a 2.5% difference, not 5% as you indicated. Whether 2.5% is fair I'll leave up to you.

But paypal also charges a fee for international payments (including personal payments). Your 5% presumably reflects both fees combined.

[kleinbatavia]

No need to explain currency transactions, believe it or not, I started my career in the dealing room as a forex trader a long time ago... The mid-market as mentioned means very little as it is neither a bid or ask. They simply take the middle of the spread. As such you won't get the middle market if you buy-sell. It is no more than logical that there's a margin to paypal, I was just observing that the margin was a bit rich... Particularly once you slap on the 1% paypal fee on the international transaction (which was theoretically already covered by the spread). I still have access to the RT reuters and TMX, so I would guess my figures should be about right... What's interesting though is the willingness of people to pay the amount they pay for transaction without asking what is happening. Guess it is due to the fact that amounts are generally small and they are happy to pay a few $$$ for the convenience. The EU is extremely hesitant on new licenses for any financial institution, but considering you can run a money transfer without a banking license, there does seem to be a real possibility for a money transfer service... Even if you just brokered a direct FX deal with amazon or one of the other large e-tailers, you would stand to make significant money. That's more for the business section and probably well beyond the scope of the LFP forum though. Anyway, I just mentioned the transaction as an illustration to see if I could trigger some suggestions for alternatives, not to trigger a debate on the accuracy of the figures If you like to talk FX, feel free to zap me a PM. For the discussion, I will run down all the messages in this thread sometime over the weekend and list the alternatives that have been mentioned. Might be useful. Have a great day