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Thread: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

  1. #1

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    Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Please excuse this question if it is a dumb one, as I am about to be a newcomer to large format photography. I backed the Travelwide Camera project at Kickstarter, and I hope to get a camera soon. The project does look like it is winding down. I have located an Ilex lens of suitable focal length and aperture, but the lens comes with a Linhof synchro compur shutter instead of a Copal #0 as specified by the Travelwide people. Looking at the SK Grimes website, the Synchro compur and Copal shutters in the same size seem to have the same measurements. My first question is,assuming the Synchro Compur is a #0 size, is it interchangeable with the Copal for this application. and my second question is how do you determine the size of the shutter by looking at it, since the seller does not seem to know.
    Thanks for any help you can give.

    Eric

  2. #2

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Compur and Copal shutters use the same size standards. Lenses that fit a #n Compur are direct fits in a #n Copal and vice versa. Similarly, a lensboard bored for a Copal #1 will also take a Compur #1 and vice versa.

    If you want to use a lens in a #0 shutter in a board drilled for a #1, you can get a threaded bushing that a #1 retaining ring will screw on to and that a #1 shutter will screw into. SKGrimes sells them, so does B&H.

    Quick way of determining the size (#) of a shutter that conforms to the Compur/Copal/Prontor/Seiko standard: unscrew the lens' front cell from the shutter, measure the mounting threads' outer diameter (or the inner diameter of the shutter's front tube). SKGrimes' site lists the sizes.

    Note that shutters made in Rochester (Ilex, Kodak Supermatic, Wollensak Rapax/Graphex) don't conform to the Compur etc. standard. Lens cells in a "Rochester" shutter aren't direct fits in a Compur or equivalent.

  3. #3

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Compur and Copal shutters use the same size standards. Lenses that fit a #n Compur are direct fits in a #n Copal and vice versa. Similarly, a lensboard bored for a Copal #1 will also take a Compur #1 and vice versa.
    All true except for #3 shutters of which there are at least 3 different sizes, though the smallest is compatible across all compur/prontor and older copal #3 or 3S.

  4. #4

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Thank you both for the information. It was very helpful.

    Eric

  5. #5

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    This was a question that I had in mind but hasn't asked! Good that you did Eonore!!
    And thanks for the answers, Dan and Koh

  6. #6
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Eric, usually you can be fairly certain what size a shutter is when you know what lens is in it, there's one common exception the early 90mm f8 Super angulons were in a Compur #00 shutter some Linhof Select as well.

    The Wonderlust Travelwide camera is shown with a 90mm f6.8 Angulon in a Synchro Compur on their website, a lens never available in a Copal shutter.

    Another small WA lens that could be used is the Wray f6.3 89mm WA lens often found in an Epsilon (Ensign) #0 shutter although some later ones are in Synchro Compurs.

    Ian

  7. #7

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    Shutter specs

    A summary of leaf shutter specs, compiled from S.K. Grimes' web site


    All dimensions in millimeters
    size # _____________________ 00 ________ 0 ______ 1 _____ Compur-2(*) Copal-3s(**) __ 3
    1/retaining ring thread ____ M25x0.5 _ M32.5x0.5 M39x0.75 M50x0.9 ____ M61.0x0.75 ___ M62.0x0.75
    2/ring outer diameter ______ 26.1 ____ 34.6 _____ 41.6 ____ 52.2 ______ 64.0 ________ 65.1
    3/lensboard hole diameter __ 26.3 ____ 34.8 _____ 41.8 ____ 52.5 ______ 64.2 ________ 65.3
    4/font group mounting thread M22.9x0.5 M29.5x0.5 M40.0x0.75 M45.75x0.75 M56.0x0.75 __ M58.0x0.75
    5/rear group mounting thread M22.9x0.5 M29.5x0.5 M36.0x0.75 M45.75x0.75 M56.0x0.75 __ M58.0x0.75
    6/distance between group seats 16 __ 20.0+-0.025 20.0+-0.025 26.75 ____ 28.6+-0.025 __31.5


    (*) There are several variants for the Compur-2, only one example is listed here
    (**) size #3s exists only for Copal shutters

    Lensboard thickness
    All thicknesses in millimeters
    Compur or Copal ; #0 : 1.5->4 #1 : 1.3 (Compur 1) or 1.5->3 #3 : 1.5->5
    Prontor Pro ; #01S : 1.5->3 #1S : 1.5->3 #3 : 1.5->4
    Copal Press ; #0 : 1.5->3 #1 : 1.5->2

    Another compilation can be found here:
    http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique..._centraux.html

    For Compound shutters, sizes have been posted on this Forum by Ole Tjungen:
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...663#post223663

  8. #8

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Quote Originally Posted by IanG View Post
    Eric, usually you can be fairly certain what size a shutter is when you know what lens is in it, there's one common exception the early 90mm f8 Super angulons were in a Compur #00 shutter some Linhof Select as well.

    The Wonderlust Travelwide camera is shown with a 90mm f6.8 Angulon in a Synchro Compur on their website, a lens never available in a Copal shutter.

    Another small WA lens that could be used is the Wray f6.3 89mm WA lens often found in an Epsilon (Ensign) #0 shutter although some later ones are in Synchro Compurs.

    Ian
    The Travelwide campaign specifies that any 90mm F6.8 or f8.0 lens in a Copal #0 shutter should work. I have made a deal with a local guy to purchase an Ilex Acugon. He originally advertised it on Craigslist as in a Copal #0 shutter, but when he looked at it prior to transfer, he realized the shutter was not working correctly. He then substituted the Compur which fits and works. I think, therefore, I am okay.

    Thanks for your comments, Analoguey, Ian and Emmanuel.

    Eric

  9. #9

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    eeyore, you'll need the correct aperture scale for y'r lens' new shutter.

  10. #10

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    Re: Shutter equivalent to Copal #0

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    eeyore, you'll need the correct aperture scale for y'r lens' new shutter.
    Dan, can you explain more fully what you mean. I am afraid I don't follow.

    Eric

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