Pyrocat HD semi stand/uneven dev

[Jim Noel]

"You use 5 seconds of agitation? I'm agitating much more so than that. I have been reading that a standard tray doesn't work as well as a proper slosher cradle. I have one of them on order already BTW."

That is purely advertising for the slosher. I have been using them since before they had a name - mine are made out of very fine stainless steel wire so I never have had problems with surge. Their purpose is only to enable one to process more than one sheet of film w/o having to stack them. I also had one of plastic, which I threw away. A smooth bottom tray one size larger than the film will do a superb job.

[RodinalDuchamp]

"You use 5 seconds of agitation? I'm agitating much more so than that. I have been reading that a standard tray doesn't work as well as a proper slosher cradle. I have one of them on order already BTW."

That is purely advertising for the slosher. I have been using them since before they had a name - mine are made out of very fine stainless steel wire so I never have had problems with surge. Their purpose is only to enable one to process more than one sheet of film w/o having to stack them. I also had one of plastic, which I threw away. A smooth bottom tray one size larger than the film will do a superb job.

Did the plastic slosher create problems for you?

I've read more than once about the currents that sloshers produce which tend to have beneficial properties. I take this with a grain of salt.

I'm not basing my problems on my tray however.

[dasBlute]

apologies for my intrusion...

I don't mean to be rude but I am hoping this thread remains about correcting the mottling or uneveness in a pyrocat HD stand process.

Threads tend to get way off course when these questions begin to be raised and there are several threads already outlining the stand process.

[sanking]

I have seen very good results with minimal agitation and semi-stand development with sloshers and would not worry about surge marks unless you actually see them.

With semi-stand development I would give vigorous agitation for about 45 seconds at the beginning of development, then vigorous agitation for about 20 seconds in the middle of the total time chosen.

I prefer minimal agitation, i.e. one initial agitation cycle, then another at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development. This method minimizes in my work flow development artifacts.

In any event, the key to success is long vigorous agitation at the beginning, and very careful attention to detail.

Sandy

[RodinalDuchamp]

I have seen very good results with minimal agitation and semi-stand development with sloshers and would not worry about surge marks unless you actually see them.

With semi-stand development I would give vigorous agitation for about 45 seconds at the beginning of development, then vigorous agitation for about 20 seconds in the middle of the total time chosen.

I prefer minimal agitation, i.e. one initial agitation cycle, then another at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development. This method minimizes in my work flow development artifacts.

In any event, the key to success is long vigorous agitation at the beginning, and very careful attention to detail.

Sandy

Sandy,

Thank you for pointing out that the agitation must be vigorous.

Now that I have read your recommendation and someone else also mentioned it earlier; I am reminded that my mentor mentioned when teaching me this developer that my agitations needed to be more aggressive than when using something like D76.

I am very excited so set up a still life with a close to pure white backdrop and get back on it.

When I have gotten good results they have been gorgeous.

[climbabout]

I have used Pyrocat HD and semi stand for many years and I develop my 8x10 in homemade 3" sch40 PVC - the film(FP4+) remains in a vertical orientation during the stand intervals. My solution is 1.5/1/175 and I agitate VIGOROUSLY for the first 2 full minutes by rolling the tube back and forth horizontally. The other 2 agitation intervals at 1/3 and 2/3 through the cycle consist of very gently inverting the tube twice over about 10-15 sec. Going to a vertical orientation, changing the dilution, increasing the initial agitation and performing a 5min presoak have largely eliminated the problems you describe. Steve Sherman and I worked very closely together refining this process for our own use years ago, Keep at it - the results are worth the trouble. After all you only need to develop each sheet of film once - the extra effort reaps dividends every time you print it.
Tim

p.s. Sandy and I must have been typing at the same time!

[Regular Rod]

Rod,

The film is always emulsion side up in a tray.

Then maybe a little bit more agitation?

RR

[RodinalDuchamp]

I have used Pyrocat HD and semi stand for many years and I develop my 8x10 in homemade 3" sch40 PVC - the film(FP4+) remains in a vertical orientation during the stand intervals. My solution is 1.5/1/175 and I agitate VIGOROUSLY for the first 2 full minutes by rolling the tube back and forth horizontally. The other 2 agitation intervals at 1/3 and 2/3 through the cycle consist of very gently inverting the tube twice over about 10-15 sec. Going to a vertical orientation, changing the dilution, increasing the initial agitation and performing a 5min presoak have largely eliminated the problems you describe. Steve Sherman and I worked very closely together refining this process for our own use years ago, Keep at it - the results are worth the trouble. After all you only need to develop each sheet of film once - the extra effort reaps dividends every time you print it.
Tim

p.s. Sandy and I must have been typing at the same time!

Thanks! I am very excited to set up a test tonight. I have seen what this combo can do and it's very beautiful and powerful. We were able to resolve close to 12 stops in a very difficult scene. Purely for testing but remarkable!

[RodinalDuchamp]

OK so I set up a still life.

I presoaked the film for 5 minutes. Then I agitates for 1:30 for the first minute then 1 minute halfway through.

Results: still mottled, splotchy, uneven in the patches of even valued tones.

Tomorrow I will try again with the same protocol as today BUT I will make sure all chemistry and presoak is at the same temperature.

If this does not fix the mottling/unevenness I will look into a more aggressive agitation technique.

I found this video which demonstrates a very lively technique which seems to work for the uploader

https://youtu.be/GWwN_T-FQyw

[sanking]

OK so I set up a still life.

I presoaked the film for 5 minutes. Then I agitates for 1:30 for the first minute then 1 minute halfway through.

Results: still mottled, splotchy, uneven in the patches of even valued tones.

Tomorrow I will try again with the same protocol as today BUT I will make sure all chemistry and presoak is at the same temperature.

If this does not fix the mottling/unevenness I will look into a more aggressive agitation technique.

I found this video which demonstrates a very lively technique which seems to work for the uploader

https://youtu.be/GWwN_T-FQyw

Based on my own experience and that of many others, mottling has not been an issue with recommended dilutions of 1+1+200. I think your problem may be in the very weak dilution, and if not, in the film itself. What film are you using?

The major problem with stand development is normally not mottling, but streaks from bromide development.

Sandy