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Thread: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

  1. #11

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    1) Whatever.
    2) Whatever makes it look right on the ground glass.
    3) Yes light got in. Jamming isn't normal.
    4) Good
    5) A little wiggle is normal. After developing, use sheet from question 3 to practice loading in the light.
    6) Meh, so what. All that counts is clean.
    7) Yes f/8 is f/8 is f/8, but you have to do the math.

    f = focal length, the real focused focal length not the marked focal length.

    If the marked focal length is 210 then f=210 at f/8 is 210/8 so aperture diameter at the f/8 mark is 26.25

    If the marked focal length is 210 then 210 is where it focuses at infinity.

    If you extended out to say 315 that means 315/26.25 = 12 so f/12 at the f/8 mark

    If you extended out to say 420 that means 420/26.25 = 16 so f/16 at the f/8 mark
    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. ~ Mark Twain

  2. #12
    Tim Meisburger's Avatar
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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Yes, I'm guessing that in #3 your film was loaded incorrectly and that is what you had trouble getting the slide back in. There are two cut-outs at the top of the film tracks and if you keep a finger on each you will know if the film is sliding into or above the tracks. Its just practice.

    When you look at the holder face on the notch should be in the upper right (or lower left). If your notch is in the lower right, you loaded the film upside down.

  3. #13
    J. Austin Powers appletree's Avatar
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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Well then. It seems like I messed up. This is why I used expired film.
    I am trying to do the math now, but pretty sure I won't even be able to save much of the exposures during developing by pushing the film. I can't even find tables for +2 stops on Delta 100. And D76, although D76 might not be best to push with, IDK. I usually have the lap push/pull a roll if I need one done.

    I loaded the film yesterday in a mod54. No questions regarding that. I practiced with a sheet of film I burned on purpose to practice with.

    But some feedback! A few of the negatives came out really really easy. I suspect (using Toyo new style holders) I didn't make it under the groove in a few instances. I practiced a lot in the dark and in light after loading my tank. One negative was stuck (most likely sheet #5 which was hung up or something), but once removing could not feel any damage on the negative edges. On further study of this particular side of the film holder the darkslide sometimes catches early. Right before it makes its way into the flap at the bottom of the holder or as it enters it. I might contact the person I bought them from to see if he had any problems with it. Anyway, I won't bog down the thread with my film holder problem. I mainly just needed more practice.

    ::So additional questions my compadres::

    1) The holes I was mentioning that someone asked, "what holes", refers to a series of threaded holes on the "rail" (not sure the term) that racks in and out from my camera. There are 5? I think, total holes to which one can mount a lens. I mounted the 210mm to the furthermost hole. Doesn't seem to matter though, now that I understand, it just means where the starting distance of my lens is from the film plane. In a wide angle lens it might be wise to use a hole closer to the film plane, etc etc. I pretty sure I explained this one to myself. Had to wrap my brain around everything.

    2) For measuring lengths I am not sure which is right. Ok Mark, you explained some great stuff. Thank you! 210mm though. What reference is this? The front of the lens to the film plane? The standard to the film plane? These are my measurements (to do the math now...after the fact haha):

    NO EXTENSION
    front of lens to film plane: 9.5" or 241.3mm
    front standard to film plane: 7 5/8" or 193.675mm

    EXTENSION
    *used the photos as reference and extended it out very similar to that during take these shots
    front of lens to film plane: 14" or 355.6mm
    front standard to film plane: 12 1/8" or 307.975mm

    In BOTH cases the additional extension adds up to 114.3mm.

    3) I was trying to use an app that takes reciprocity factor and bellows extension into account. Now, that is, not when I took the photos, my brain lapsed!
    My 30s exposure at 210mm focal length, Delta 100, and 420mm bellows extension gives 21mins haha.

    I just wasn't thinking clearly. I know/it is logical that when moving a lens further away not only do you have to compensate for this, but you have a lot of additional area inside the bellows which much get light to the film.

    4) When using this app, I enter focal length (210mm, for example). For bellows extension would I enter the distance I extended out, say 114mm or the full length? And likewise to question 2, do I measure from the film plane to the bellows/standard or front of the lens?


    Thank you all. I will keep practicing!

  4. #14

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    The drawings in most large format instruction books greatly exaggerate the amount of movements necessary to get an object in focus. The drawings always look like 40 + degrees when often 5-15 works. Steve Simmons has a nice YouTube video on focusing the lf camera.

  5. #15

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Ok, focus the camera at something a long way away, 1/4 mile or more, you are finding infinity focus. Now if you measure from the film to roughly the middle of the lens it should be darn close to 210mm. Now you can use those same two points to find the real focal length for any other shot you may take.
    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. ~ Mark Twain

  6. #16
    J. Austin Powers appletree's Avatar
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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Ok, perfect. So it is from the film to about where the lensboard is? Sorry for my confusion. "Middle of the lens" is vague for me. You have an outer and inner element. Outer is screwed to a shutter. To which the whole thing sandwiched to a lensboard. Correct? Sorry, still getting the hang of it all.

    I am not trying to be a pain! Thank you.

  7. #17

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Yeah roughly. The exact point in the lens doesn't matter. just pick two points where you can easily measure 210. It's a relative measurement.
    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. ~ Mark Twain

  8. #18

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by appletree View Post
    Ok, perfect. So it is from the film to about where the lensboard is? Sorry for my confusion. "Middle of the lens" is vague for me. You have an outer and inner element. Outer is screwed to a shutter. To which the whole thing sandwiched to a lensboard. Correct? Sorry, still getting the hang of it all.

    I am not trying to be a pain! Thank you.
    For "middle of the lens" imagine where the shutter lies, and use that as the lens reference point.

  9. #19
    J. Austin Powers appletree's Avatar
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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    Ok, thank you.

  10. #20

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    Re: First Photos Taken on 4x5 - A Few Questions

    If you have an iPhone, the Reciprocity Timer app is great for calculating stuff like bellows extension and reciprocity correction.

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