Questions/Advice Regarding 210mm Lenses (4x5)

[appletree]

So, hi again all. Got a ton of help for my tripod search/selecting (oops that was Apug) and would love some direction on a 210mm lens, please.

Summary question for this thread: Does my selection boil down to personal taste and price range?

A few bits of information:

1. Lens not being purchased anytime real soon (so thank you for links to current ones being sold, but I probably will not pull the trigger as first lens will be a 150mm).
2. Price range is bang for buck, I prefer to buy once and be done (for a long time).
3. If used like I shoot MF and 35mm it won't be used too often. I generally find myself sticking with one lens. Probably will travel with two (either 90mm and 150mm or most likely 150mm and 210mm) when backpacking. Otherwise all three will stay in my bag.
4. I would prefer not to own multiple lenses in same focal lengths. Thus niche lenses might not be wise purchases. (I understand ask me again in 10+ years and I may have convinced myself why I needed 4 different 150mm lens)
5. I primarily shoot landscape/macro in my home "studio". Really interested in using the 210mm for portrait work though (a direction I am itching to work towards). Little to no architecture work.
6. For 150mm, practically settled on a Rodenstock APO-Sironar S.
7. Camera I own is a Chamonix 045N-2.

I think that covers any pertinent details that seem quite commonly needed or helpful in giving advice.

Details:
So, I have read an article by John Sparks and Kerry Thalmann (both seem well known/respected) on their favorite landscape lenses. Also read, Ken Lee's page on his favorite lenses and comments regarding such. Have also read through an article by Jeroen Bruggeman on large format lenses for portrait work.

No idea how I would decide between the seemingly endless options out there. Have sort of settled on one of these (maybe...):

• Schneider Symmar-S
• Voigtlander Heliar
• Schneider Xenar
• Rodenstock Ysarex

So, an early question I have is, I want a lens that will still be sharp, and is that possible with some of these lenses people seem to love for their softness traits? I mean I guess that is a silly statement they are all sharp as heck, I'm sure. But I don't want to see every blemish, yet perhaps have the ability to do such a thing. While also when fully open have a creaminess and softness that is just beautiful in it's own right. I guess with everything I have said a lens that can do a lot and wide range of uses, although if not an expert or the "best" at any of them, that is fine.

I mean to be honest the bokeh differences between Heliar and Xenar might never really be noticed unless I compare a photo or own both lenses....otherwise I only "known" one type of personality trait of the lens I own. Perhaps my expectations are unrealistic and thus why people own multiple lens, but for my first I would love to track one down that can take really sharp beautiful photos from the hip up if I want to or open the aperture and create a beautiful softness. Doesn't have to be the best at sharpness or the best at softness.

Thanks for any advice. Not really driving myself crazy or anything, just a bit of research and reading and trying to know what I suspect will work for my peculiarities/personality and thus know what to keep an eye peeled for on the used market. For the record I love (slightly NSFW) the aspects of this photo. *Photo from Jeroen Bruggeman's article. Yet I would love to "be able to" throw in some faster speed film and f/22 and produce a sharp macro shot or landscape or (maybe would be silly to not use the 150mm...not really sure)...maybe better example is to turn around and shoot a sharp portrait.

As always, I tried doing some leg work to avoid repeated questions/topics that pop up every-so-often. For instance had to do more research than I should admit to sort out I need Linof style boards that have their holes center-drilled...most likely will need #0 and #1 sizes...although if I get a non-Copal shutter and blast, no idea......more research!! That said, the help around here (in my short time), has been much appreciated.

Excited I have been slowly building my kit for my Chamonix. If you can't tell...I tend to ramble. Apologies!

[Jim Galli]

Get a Caltar S-II Multicoated.

[Tin Can]

Shutters are very important primarily for new to LF. The pros here shoot with hats or less.

I try to buy good working shutters with lens of the day.

[John Kasaian]

Take a look at a Wollensak Velostigmat f/4.5----sharp stopped down & nice bokeh wide open.

[Vaughn]

I'll throw another one out at you. My first 4x5 came with a Computar Symmetrigon 210/6.3. Usually comes with a metal lens hood -- and in a Copal 1 shutter. Very sharp, good contrast. Usually a lot of bang for the buck!

[Lachlan 717]

For the landscape/macro aspects, consider a Schneider G Claron 210mm.

[Dan Fromm]

Schneider Symmar-S
Voigtlander Heliar
Schneider Xenar
Rodenstock Ysarex

Symmar-S -- generally accepted as a very fine lens, much more coverage than you need for 4x5. Abundant and relatively inexpensive.

Heliar -- many versions, cult lens, expensive. Again, more coverage than you need for 4x5. Not as sharp as a tessar type or a good plasmat like the Symmar-S. People claim that Heliars have an exceptionally smooth transition from in-focus (sharp) to out-of-focus (not sharp).

Xenar -- many versions, several speeds. More coverage than you'll need for 4x5. 210/5.6 Xenars are very sharp even wide open, older f/4.5ers aren't. Tessar types. There are many older f/4.5ers around, often in so-so shutters. I'd hold out for an f/5.6er. Scarcer than the Symmar-S.

Ysarex -- another tessar type, same comments as for the Xenar except that users claim they're the best tessar types around. I wouldn't know. Not that common and I have no idea about prices.

If I were in your position I'd look for a Symmar-S when I started shopping because its likely to be the least expensive and easiest to find. In terms of what the lenses will do for you, all but the Heliar are roughly equivalent unless you huge movements, in which case the Symmar-S wins. Heliars are somewhat scarce and expensive and the fast heliar types I've used haven't been outstanding. But I've never used a real (whatever that means, there are several designs) Voigtlaender Heliar.

[Chuck Pere]

How about an 8 1/4in Dagor? Should be sharp stopped down. But not sure if it will give you the soft look you want wide open.

[appletree]

Wow, the responses. Thank you all. Seems like my suspicions were right, there are a multitude of options and even more and more, it seems.

I will go through all of this tonight and respond. Thanks again.
Did not realize how important the shutter is (I assume that post refers to it's condition...not the type of shutter?)...I will try and research this as I am sure it has been discussed a lot. Being new to LF it is not something I had considered or studied, yet.

[Taija71A]

___

Out of the various 210mm lenses that you have cited (Schneider Symmar-S, Voigtlander Heliar, Schneider Xenar and Rodenstock Ysarex)... Like Dan, I too will 'Throw my Hat in the Ring' -- For the 'venerable' Schneider Symmar-S.

*However, let's face it... There is an overabundance of good choices 'out there' -- For you to discover!
--
Regards,

-Tim.
_________