Recommendations for a 4x5 wooden folding field camera?

[fishbulb]

So I have been printing more, and have found my digital images work pretty well up to about 16x20 (about the max size I can print at 300ppi with my Nikon D800) but larger than that they fall apart. I would like to step up to 20x30 or even larger prints and still retain good detail. So I've been looking at/drooling over large format cameras of course! The large majority of my work, and interest, is landscapes in the Pacific Northwest, USA but I also dabble in just about everything else (the blessing and curse of digital capture).

Of course, I started looking at 8x10 Deardorffs. The classic that so many great photographers used. But the cameras are hard to come by, the parts are hard to come by, and there seem to be some issues regarding the reliability of the current owner of the Deardorff namesake, judging by the forum threads I have read, and his BBB grade (F). Sounds like it's one of those things that happens with these one-man companies, as it seems like the same thing happened with the Wisner company a few years ago.

So, I started to think about what's important to me for this:

Criteria 1: A camera that is supported by a current manufacturer, or has a broad and deep used market, so that I don't have to scour flea markets and ebay for hours just to get some more film holders or a replacement part. So I started looking around on ebay and various manufacturer sites, and I realized that I wanted it...

Criteria 2: Ideally made of wood - Linhof Technika's seem like great cameras, but the look just leaves me cold. Same with the Sinar and Toyo - looks functional but too industrial - and in some cases also huge and heavy - So....

Criteria 3: A folding field camera - It doesn't have to be super, ultra light, but something reasonably portable and compact. Which probably means 4x5 and not 8x10. And, this of course lead me to Ebony. Amazing stuff. Beautiful cameras. But maybe overkill for just starting out in large format? There are some nice Ebony 4x5 field cameras used on ebay at around the $3,000 mark, which I could afford, but I'm not sure I'd appreciate the value of such a high-end instrument. Same goes for the KB Canham wood 4x5 for about $3,000 new. Looks awesome, but not sure it's the best use of my money at this point. So...

Criteria 4: Good value for the money, good "all arounder" - So I started looking at ShenHao (4x5's for $800-1100 or so at Badger Graphic) and also Chamonix, which are comparably priced. Not as interested in Chamonix due to the use of carbon fiber though.

Also looked at Richard Ritter, but he doesn't make 4x5's (at least not regularly), and Wista, but their website, and their U.S. distributor's website, are 20 years old and have little current information! There are a few on ebay in an OK price range ($1,000-2,000) but who knows what happens if you need parts or something. The Cherry and Rose models look beautiful though.

So, right now I've probably landed on a ShenHao. Good looks, still being made, good value. But my main question is: is it worth spending the extra money for an Ebony or KB Canham (probably on the used market) to "grow into" or are the differences not really going to be appreciable in terms of actually using the camera vs. just looking at it?

[Liquid Artist]

If I was to buy a wooden 4x5, and could afford it I would look at Ebony.
Although you can buy a small collection of cameras for the same price I doubt that any would come close to the beauty or quality of it.

However, now that I'm shooting 5x7, I rarely touch my 4x5.
Being a close match to your digitals aspect ratio will make it easier to picture the photo in your head plus it's just a nicer size for viewing and contact prints.

Although the film isn't as easy to obtain both Kodak and Ilford seem happy doing up special orders as long as the demand is there.

[Will Frostmill]

I'll point out that in 30 days you'll have access to the For Sale subforum. There are a lot of cameras, holders, and lenses, bought and sold there, and repair services offered by people who know what they are doing. If it's a camera part, no matter how obscure, someone here sells it, re-manufactures it, or knows where to source it.

I have had no experience with Ebony cameras, but that's a lot of money to spend on a light-tight box, particularly when functionally equivalent cameras can be had for a fraction of the price. If I had money to burn, of course I'd buy some beautiful cherry wood and brass camera. If you can afford it, go for it, and have fun!

As for "growing into", well it's the whole system that's complex, not the individual parts. It's the interaction between shift, and tilt, and depth of field limits, and bellows extension factors, and film plane registration, and light meter, and tripod vibration, and wind, and on and on and on that makes LF complicated. An expensive LF camera is almost always as complex as a cheap one. (There's some subtleties about on axis tilts vs off, and rear rise and fall vs. front that matter for some things, but not others, but that's not necessarily reflected in price.)

[fishbulb]

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't thought about the aspect ratio difference, although I often crop to an 4/5 ratio for 16x20 prints.

Yes there are some very cheap 4x5 outfits to be had, especially on Craigslist, if one does not care too much about the brand, quality, or condition. There is a large Sinar P kit with 4 lenses for sale locally for a few hundred dollars, for example. But it needs repairs and who knows what else I'm sure.

I'll point out that in 30 days you'll have access to the For Sale subforum. There are a lot of cameras, holders, and lenses, bought and sold there, and repair services offered by people who know what they are doing. If it's a camera part, no matter how obscure, someone here sells it, re-manufactures it, or knows where to source it.

Ah thanks for that. I was wondering if there was a for sale forum here. A 30 day wait period just to view the for sale forum? I could understand a wait period to post there, but a wait period just to view it?

Ah well. I'll check back for that forum in a month if I haven't settled on anything that can be purchased from a manufacturer, distributor, eBay, KEH, B&H, Adorama, local craigslist, local camera shop, or one of the other dozens of places.

[Liquid Artist]

Just my opinion but most people on ebay and most Web based stores hose you on the shipping unless you find several items from them and they are willing to combine shipping.

Whereas on this forum most people just charge actual shipping costs, or even just wave them off.

[John Kasaian]

The advantage of a pricier camera should be in the camera its self. Some cameras are just more intuitive for some people but you won't know which until you get enough experience to define what works best for you.
The more fun a LF camera is, the more you'll shoot and the better you'll get at it.
All else being equal, an expensive new camera won't take any better photo than an old used camera---a light tight box is a light tight box. A sturdy tripod and quality lens (and you) will make more of an impact on your image than the name written on your camera.
My 2 cents anyway.
And as for film holders you'll find Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity as standardized as it gets.
Enjoy!

[Peter Collins]

Re-read and memorize what John Kasaian wrote. (!!)

[Liquid Artist]

And as for film holders you'll find Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity as standardized as it gets.
Enjoy!

Film Holders are subjective.
Several people here swear by Toyo, and won't use anything else. They claim they're the only ones where the film plane is always within specs, or something like that. They may be right, however I only own a mixture of Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity myself and am happy with the image quality I get from all of them. I may be less fussy than them, or may have lucked out with all 24 in my collection.

If you do decide to join the Toyo crowd you may want whoever you buy them from to ensure that they don't Stink.
Some people say some of the newer ones have that awful cheap plastic stench you'll find with some items.
I have never read of anyone getting rid of the stench, even after scrubbing them plus waiting a year.

[Jim Jones]

Forty years ago I bought a 5x7 B&J flatbed and soon after a 4x5 back for it. I still use it now and then, despite having other LF gear that is even better for many purposes. Few cameras have more extensive swings and tilts. A featherweight field camera may weigh three pounds less, but that makes little difference by the time you've added lenses, film holders, and other accessories. There are many of these cameras and accessories available used. They use lens boards that are readily made with basic equipment. The wood is sometimes nice under the grey paint. A B&J isn't the ultimate camera for hardly anyone, but it is a great starter. You can select the second view camera much better after using the first one. Then you can sell (or give) the B&J to someone else just moving up to LF.

[Alan Gales]

What if you buy a brand new Ebony and decide that sheet film just isn't for you? You are going to take a hit when you sell it. That's why a lot of us recommend buying a used camera as a first camera. If you later sell it you will at least get most of your money back.

Cameras are very subjective. What one person likes another doesn't and no camera is perfect. You need to shoot 4x5 for a while to even know what you like.

I'd try to find a good used camera at a fair price.


If I wanted a Deardorff I would have no qualms about buying a used one in good shape. They were very well made.