others lenses to match a dagor

[kreig]

It appears that a stopped down 300mm (12") Dagor will cover 12x20 and 14x17 formats.

Are there other lenses that can do the same?? There are a lot of Rodenstock and other modern lenses that are much more common than Dagors. Without going to far, what is the widest lens available for these formats? Forget the exoctic stuff like hypergons, I am tlaking about affordable lenses commonly found on the open market.

Thanks

[roger michel]

hi -- the 12" dagors will not reliably cover 12/20 in my experience. however, there is huge sample to sample variation in actual circle of *illumination* with these lenses, and so you may find a 12" that does it for you. usually the 14" dagors will cover 12/20. but, again, testing is required. the widest i have ever used on 12/20 is the fairly scarce goerz 270 rectagon. and f9 or f11 as i recall. lens and repro has/had one.

things don't get predictable really until you get into the 400mm+ range. always test.

best regards, roger

[roger michel]

hi -- i just checked the l&r website. they still list the 270mm rectagon for $500. they will probably take less. i was wrong about the max ap -- it is an f10. my recollection is that the mount is a little ratty, but serviceable.

[Donald Miller]

355 G Claron

[sanking]

The best bet for an inexpensive lens is the 12" Dagor, and my experience is that the very early ones 1900-30) cover more than newer one. I have a 12" Dagor from ca 1920, American Optical Company variety, and it just covers the format, though you have to stop down to f/45 or f/64 for decent performance on the edges. However, even stopped down the resolution at the far corners is only about 5 lppm at best, but this is probably good enough for contact printing. On the other hand I have tested numerous specimens from the 1940s and 50s and never found one that would cover 12X20 without some vignetting.

Below 300 mm the choice of old lenses is quite reduced: 270mm or so hypergons, rectagons and Series V Protars. If you really want a nice modern lens with super wide angel coverage the 210 Schneider SSXL covers with a inch or more of movement, but at cost of $2500 or more, plus you really need the center filter because light fall off at the edges is very significant with a lens this wide on 12X20.

In the $500 or so range, if you are lucky, I would suggest a convertible Symmar, 360mm f/5.6. Like the Dagor it *just* covers 12X20, but performance both in the center and at he corners tends to be a bit better than with the old 12" Dagors.

[kreig]

Good answers, thank you. I can see my question was not very clear for what I was looking for. Was looking for alternatives for the 12" Dagor. I already have a 360 Rodenstock lens that easily covers the 14x17 format. I was looking for something with a wider view (shorter focal length) at an affordable price. Of course what is the definition of affordable.

Thanks.

[John D Gerndt]

covering the 12x20 for a 12 inch lens is quite a push. If you need even a little less coverage your options open up. I think I am going to back down from the really big stuff into 7x17 for this reason, maybe all the way down to 11x14 to get back to an effecient use of paper.

Protar Vs are the cheapest small older lenses to cover 90+ degrees, the Bausch and Lomb seem to sell for less without any loss in quality that I can see. Thats my recommendation.

Cheers,

[Tracy Storer]

Hey Krieg,
I may have posted this before, but as others have noted, Protar Vs are your best bet, with the caveat that they're not as common in the longer focal lengths...My 212mm Series V covers 14x17. there were 8.25", 10.5", and 12" as well as shorter and longer. Some of the Series IVs may work also, less coverage than the V, but still probably more coverage than a Dagor.

[Mike Phifer]

The Series V protar was reported to cover 100 Degrees and the Wide Angle (series 4)DAGOR covers 90 degrees (it is f /11). Zeiss also called these lenses Anastigmats previously to using the Protar name. The wide angle is the series V and is f/18. The series 111 a is also common however it covers 97 degrees (it is f/9). Carfull of Protars of other apatures, they are not wide angles and cover 40- 75 degrees. (These coverages are from my old "Handbook of Photography", Henney and Dudley, 1939 McGraw-Hill. The chapter was written by R. Kingslake)

[sanking]

"Was looking for alternatives for the 12" Dagor. I already have a 360 Rodenstock lens that easily covers the 14x17 format. I was looking for something with a wider view (shorter focal length) at an affordable price. Of course what is the definition of affordable?"

The fact of the matter is that super wide angle lenses in the 210 mm to 270 mm range that will cover 12X20" are far from common, and owners of cameras of this size are nearly always on the look out for them, and often prepared to pay a premium price for specimens in good condition. Demand, and the almost total lack of modern alternatives, except for the 210 SSXL, combine to push make these lenses very expensive. So unless you just happen to luck upon a super wide angle lens for 12X20" at a private auction or an estate sale the major issue becomes "what is your definition of affordable?"