Request clarification of large format.

[Drew Wiley]

Heck. I know a fellow who attaches Nikon DLSR's and 35mm and 6x7 film SLR's to the film plane of a big Toyo 8x10 and uses process Apo Nikkors on the rig for taking telephotography shots superior to what ordinary gear is capable of. While elaboration on the small camera itself might be testing boundaries, I don't see why the mere discussion of an approach like this would rattle anyones nerves; and the even the shots themselves could hypothetically be posted in the Lounge section. Not everyone uses a traditional sheet film holder for every application a view camera is capable of. I've seen multiple lengths of Sinar bellows rigged up on steel structural beams to microscope lenses to get uber-photomicrographs. In other words, ultra-small ends up equalling large format, one way or the other. Why would something like that be off limits either. Even if something like that did not comprise a traditional portable view camera application, it does nonethess share many of the same equipment variables.

[Dan Fromm]

Interesting discussion.

I believe that deleted posts become invisible. This may explain why I'm not aware of posts on forbidden topics that have been deleted.

That said, the moderators' practice seems to be along the lines of "we'll tolerate quite a lot that breaks the rules as published as long as you don't make a spectacle of yourself." As far as I can see, few of us push the format limits by asking questions about care and feeding of small format cameras, properties of small format lenses, and so on.

But I have seen discussions of the relative merits of roll film cameras (strictly speaking, taboo) and cameras that take sheet film. I think I've posted comments to the effect that for some applications a 35 mm SLR is a better tool than a view camera of any size with no protests from the moderators.

Context matters.

[ic-racer]

If you asked me for a description of what goes on here, I'd call it the "Large Format and View Camera Photography Forum"

[rdenney]

As Ralph said, we are discussing it.

In the past, when we received complaints, we have moved discussions of roll-film cameras to the Lounge. We do not delete medium and small-format discussions. I won't say more until we've discussed it amongst ourselves, though I agree the current wording leaves a big opening for view cameras down to APS if such a thing could be devised. I do not believe that was ever the intent of this forum.

Rick "knowing that wherever we draw the line, it will be arbitrary and will annoy someone" Denney

[TXFZ1]

I am sure you guys will discuss it but one thing to think about is why have rules that cannot be consistantly enforced. There is inconsistancy of these guidelines being enforced, this is not just the format issue on this forum. I personally don't really care if the photo is made by a mammoth or 2x3, digital back or film, iphone or hubbel telescope. There is a lot of mis-information as noted above, people up in arms about rules that are not even rules. I can point to iphones in the main forum that have been commented by moderators and people as above claiming moderators are deleting their posts. This is not a dig at moderators but IMHO, whatever line in the sand set forth should be enforceable. My suggestion is freestyle it on the honor system.

David

[rdenney]

I am sure you guys will discuss it but one thing to think about is why have rules that cannot be consistantly enforced. There is inconsistancy of these guidelines being enforced, this is not just the format issue on this forum. I personally don't really care if the photo is made by a mammoth or 2x3, digital back or film, iphone or hubbel telescope. There is a lot of mis-information as noted above, people up in arms about rules that are not even rules. I can point to iphones in the main forum that have been commented by moderators and people as above claiming moderators are deleting their posts. This is not a dig at moderators but IMHO, whatever line in the sand set forth should be enforceable. My suggestion is freestyle it on the honor system.

David

We have always allowed photos that illustrate an equipment setup or even technical point, and as long as people don't complain. But photos that are examples rather than instructional are clearly off topic and we will remove those. Threads that ask about technique for smaller cameras will get moved to the lounge, not deleted.

Rick "preferring enough clarity so that enforcement isn't required" Denney

[Jac@stafford.net]

Rick "preferring enough clarity so that enforcement isn't required" Denney

Rick "knowing that wherever we draw the line, it will be arbitrary and will annoy someone" Denney

Well put. Attempts to have very specific language in such matters invites nit-picking which usually muddies the issue. Expressing the spirit of rule is best.

A funny aside - I once worked in Trinidad where they are particularly sensitive to possible exploitation from persons/companies outside the country. I drew up an agreement and their government attorney said, "Your agreement is acceptable; sufficiently ambiguous." It was the only way to do business with respect to the culture.

[sanking]

Well put. Attempts to have very specific language in such matters invites nit-picking which usually muddies the issue. Expressing the spirit of rule is best.
..........

I agree with the concept of spirit of rule. First principles as Marcus Aurelius would have said, look first to the essence of the thing, what it is and what it does.

For me the essence of view camera work, and what primarily sets it apart from other camera work, is the use of movements such as tilt/swing and rise/fall/shift to control perspective and focus.

Sandy

[toyotadesigner]

I know that an Arca Swiss 6x9 or a Linhof Technica 6x9 are 'large format' cameras according to the rules.

Besides this fact, a 6x9 is a large format camera compared to the postage stamp sized sensors around the world.

Uhm, I call a 6x9 Arca a (4x5)/2 or half size 4x5.

[BradS]

It is interesting to observe the on-going struggle to define the boundaries of the gray area of the community. Once again, I do not envy the moderators' job.