Richard Avedon

[Drew Wiley]

Of course he posed them! He even flew that bee guy in from a totally different state! In some cases, like his famous shot of a haggard Marilyn Monroe or downcast Duke and Duchess of Windsor, he deliberately wore down his posers to the point of sheer exhaustion during a long session and then caught them off guard. Wish more photographers like him were still around. All by themselves they could double the sales volume of sheet film and keep it in steady production. What would that idiotic bee shot by itself cost at today's rates? Lodging and logistics for assistants, plus the beekeepers flight and fee, then 100 sheets of processed 8x10 film,
maybe a $10,000 shot today? Wonder if he had cowpokes roll their own tobacco in sheet film just to burn more film in that manner?

[aluncrockford]

Of course he posed them! He even flew that bee guy in from a totally different state! In some cases, like his famous shot of a haggard Marilyn Monroe or downcast Duke and Duchess of Windsor, he deliberately wore down his posers to the point of sheer exhaustion during a long session and then caught them off guard. Wish more photographers like him were still around. All by themselves they could double the sales volume of sheet film and keep it in steady production. What would that idiotic bee shot by itself cost at today's rates? Lodging and logistics for assistants, plus the beekeepers flight and fee, then 100 sheets of processed 8x10 film,
maybe a $10,000 shot today? Wonder if he had cowpokes roll their own tobacco in sheet film just to burn more film in that manner?

I have read most of the comments regarding Avedon and his white background portraits and feel just a tad depressed by the tone and direction of some of the rather unfortunate comments. I do not know what you do to earn a living but I suspect it is not photography . Producing any cohesive body of work is not easy, particularly when you have to work to a brief, and if using assistants and casting agents gets you a better final image, then not using them would be considered to be very unprofessional .

Regarding the working method of this shoot, I would start by saying that using 10x8 to shoot people is very very tricky but the reason for using it are not just the size of the print, what you are in looking for is the connection between the camera and the sitter, and having a large format camera pointed at you is a very different experience for both the sitter and photographer than being pointed at by an SLR. a good example of this attempt to connect sitter with viewer are the
Monomaniac Portraits of gericault,

gericault approached the sitter with a request to the sitter not to be the passive subject but to be the active viewer looking out and into the eyes of the viewer, he was quoted as saying "I am not looking at them,they are inspecting, viewing, and connecting with those who look upon them". it could well be argued that it was this approach that Avedon was attempting to achive, if this was his intention then it could be said that the viewers connection with the subject is what validates the work.

You may be of the opinion that the work produced by Avedon is not at one with your particular estetic outlook, but please give a little respect for fact that the work was created and in some circles it is deemed to have merit.

Finally regarding your disdain for the fact that he did not print his work most photographers I know use printers to produce their work , the reason is simple , pro printers are better than photographers at printing,why would you wast time printing your own when you can brief out the printing and get a better job.

[mdm]

It takes a life time of hard, hard work to achieve what Richard Avedon did. Naturally some will be forgotten, but his best is undeniably Avedon. That makes him a great, with Sander, Atget, Strand, Kertez, etc.

[bob carnie]

big plus One

It takes a life time of hard, hard work to achieve what Richard Avedon did. Naturally some will be forgotten, but his best is undeniably Avedon. That makes him a great, with Sander, Atget, Strand, Kertez, etc.

[Ari]

I have read most of the comments regarding Avedon and his white background portraits and feel just a tad depressed by the tone and direction of some of the rather unfortunate comments. I do not know what you do to earn a living but I suspect it is not photography . Producing any cohesive body of work is not easy, particularly when you have to work to a brief, and if using assistants and casting agents gets you a better final image, then not using them would be considered to be very unprofessional .

Regarding the working method of this shoot, I would start by saying that using 10x8 to shoot people is very very tricky but the reason for using it are not just the size of the print, what you are in looking for is the connection between the camera and the sitter, and having a large format camera pointed at you is a very different experience for both the sitter and photographer than being pointed at by an SLR. a good example of this attempt to connect sitter with viewer are the
Monomaniac Portraits of gericault,

gericault approached the sitter with a request to the sitter not to be the passive subject but to be the active viewer looking out and into the eyes of the viewer, he was quoted as saying "I am not looking at them,they are inspecting, viewing, and connecting with those who look upon them". it could well be argued that it was this approach that Avedon was attempting to achive, if this was his intention then it could be said that the viewers connection with the subject is what validates the work.

You may be of the opinion that the work produced by Avedon is not at one with your particular estetic outlook, but please give a little respect for fact that the work was created and in some circles it is deemed to have merit.

Finally regarding your disdain for the fact that he did not print his work most photographers I know use printers to produce their work , the reason is simple , pro printers are better than photographers at printing,why would you wast time printing your own when you can brief out the printing and get a better job.

It takes a life time of hard, hard work to achieve what Richard Avedon did. Naturally some will be forgotten, but his best is undeniably Avedon. That makes him a great, with Sander, Atget, Strand, Kertez, etc.

Your calm, sensible, rational, hyperbole-free posts have no place on a thread such as this.

[analoguey]

Your calm, sensible, rational, hyperbole-free posts have no place on a thread such as this.

:-)
Of course they have! Especially to those who are reading than commenting(like I was, until now)

[Drew Wiley]

Hey. Don't point your nose up at me. Lot's of people disliked Avedon's pretension. And at least one of you already put your foot in your mouth by classifying him with Kertesz, who famously labeled Avedon "a zero" - nothing more than an advertising photographer - and even refused to be exhibited in the same museum where Avedon was first shown. I don't blame him. And you can't attribute that to jealousy. Kertesz was far more wealthy and connected than Avedon and probably could have built his own film factory if he wanted, rather than just burning sheets like toilet paper. But he was a 35mm guy. Go look up the Kertesz Foundation
and yell at them, blame them for the "hyperbole", not me.

[Drew Wiley]

... and nothing can be more ridiculous than that statement that serious large format portrait photographers don't do their own printing, or by the mere nature of the shoot have to shoot a lot of frames. How the heck did they do it back in wet plate days? Have elves everywhere coating plates like insanity and hoping they didn't dry first? Some of greats took one or two shots and that was it. No choice. And some were brilliant printers too. If certain photographers nurture a successful business and aesthetic relationship with a pro printer, that's wonderful. But not every successful businessman hires a chauffeur either. Some like to drive their own car. I wonder if Avedon even knew how to drive.

[richardman]

In the end, it's just a bunch of photos one sees in a museum/gallery or in books. Anyone can make their own decisions whether it's tripe or the "best things ever."

I admit that my earlier (negative) opinions about Mr. Avedon was colored by stories about how he did things.

But over the years, especially since finding out how difficult it really is, to get good LF portraits, I have gotten to be very appreciative of his skills and work style.

[Drew Wiley]

Avedon will always be controversial. He made sure of that. It was integral to his marketing persona. But in hindsight some of his over-the-top tricks just seem
kitchy - like that bee man utterly unrelated to the theme of the project, or Natasha and the snake - really dated stunts typical of the era. He reminds me of Warhol. I don't think art would have skipped a beat if neither had ever existed. But others worship 60's genres.