Do your best BW inkjets matched or surpass your best BW wet prints?

[invisibleflash]

And if your not much of a printer...have you seen BW inkjets that match or best the best wet prints?

If you are able to make your inkjets interchangeable with wet prints. Please give the components that help you achieve this...special inks, printers, profiles etc.

My own inkjets are about 90% as good as some of the best gallery BW I've seen. But I was not able to ascertain if the gallery had wet or inkjet prints.

The other component of my own printing is that while I am a very good printer, I am not the best printer. My expertise is in the shooting foremost, printing secondary.

The area of my inkjet that was a smidgen of was in the blacks. It seems prints made with a 3880 can only get 'so black.' Maybe other printers, inks and profiles can improve on this. If my blacks were 10% richer they would match the best I've ever seen.

Thanks

[Delfi_r]

Try http://www.piezography.com/

But there is no substitute for fotosensitive silver or other process

[AuditorOne]

They are different, but I like each for different reasons.

I gave up trying to make digital look like film quite a while ago.

[Lenny Eiger]

There has been a lot said about this. Too much, in fact. The truth is that the two mediums are different. The surfaces have very different shine characteristics. Personally I don't like any gloss at all, and, of course, some people love it. The tones arrange themselves a bit differently, altho' very slightly. These are personal preferences.

That said, inkjet prints have a wider tonal range, more akin to alternative process prints. Photoshop is far more controllable when making corrections to specific areas. With masking its capabilities, one can accurately control areas where burning and dodging in the darkroom would be difficult.

It comes down to whether or not you like the surface you are printing on, and whether or not you like the process of working. Neither of them is "more photographic", they are both just techniques.

I have made inkjet prints that are literally indistinguishable from platinum prints. I use Cone inks, that I mix up to my own specifications, and a RIP that allows me to control the densities of each channel. Everything is smooth, I have more black than I need and the prints are exquisite.

Lenny

[Jim Noel]

There has been a lot said about this. Too much, in fact. The truth is that the two mediums are different. The surfaces have very different shine characteristics. Personally I don't like any gloss at all, and, of course, some people love it. The tones arrange themselves a bit differently, altho' very slightly. These are personal preferences.

That said, inkjet prints have a wider tonal range, more akin to alternative process prints. Photoshop is far more controllable when making corrections to specific areas. With masking its capabilities, one can accurately control areas where burning and dodging in the darkroom would be difficult.

It comes down to whether or not you like the surface you are printing on, and whether or not you like the process of working. Neither of them is "more photographic", they are both just techniques.

I have made inkjet prints that are literally indistinguishable from platinum prints. I use Cone inks, that I mix up to my own specifications, and a RIP that allows me to control the densities of each channel. Everything is smooth, I have more black than I need and the prints are exquisite.

Lenny

Inkjet prints do not have a wider tonal range. In fact, most people print them with more narrow range. Masking is another simple darkroom process which was incorporated into the digital imaging process. I have been doing it for 60+ years.

I have seen quite a few prints made by people who claim they can match a platinum print.They shut up when their print is laid beside a good Pt/Pd print.
This question was brought up at a workshop a few years ago where Stephen Johnson and I were both making presentations. He told the group he couldn't match my prints and if they wanted to make a print like mine they would have to learn the processes I use. His expertise is enough for me and I certainly appreciated his remarks. If he can't match my prints on a computer, I doubt seriously that anyone can.

[invisibleflash]

Inkjet prints do not have a wider tonal range. In fact, most people print them with more narrow range. Masking is another simple darkroom process which was incorporated into the digital imaging process. I have been doing it for 60+ years.

I have seen quite a few prints made by people who claim they can match a platinum print.They shut up when their print is laid beside a good Pt/Pd print.
This question was brought up at a workshop a few years ago where Stephen Johnson and I were both making presentations. He told the group he couldn't match my prints and if they wanted to make a print like mine they would have to learn the processes I use. His expertise is enough for me and I certainly appreciated his remarks. If he can't match my prints on a computer, I doubt seriously that anyone can.

One thing about my inkjet I don't like is that the grays tend to be kinda blah. Don't know how to describe it. But some prints with a lot of gray look bland. The silver prints seemed to have more gray separation. But nothing concrete on this, just a feeling.

[Mark Barendt]

One thing about my inkjet I don't like is that the grays tend to be kinda blah. Don't know how to describe it. But some prints with a lot of gray look bland. The silver prints seemed to have more gray separation. But nothing concrete on this, just a feeling.

IMO what you are probably seeing here is not intrinsic. More likely, it was just a choice made by the person who printed that particular photo and probably not representative of the medium itself.

I tried the inkjet route and created some very fine looking prints, I gave up on printing inkjet myself because it was a pain to use (plugged jets etc...) and cost. I found that I could upload the file to a lab for printing and have the prints shipped for less and never have to deal with plugged nozzles or any of the other maintenance.

[Tyler Boley]

One thing about my inkjet I don't like is that the grays tend to be kinda blah. Don't know how to describe it. But some prints with a lot of gray look bland. The silver prints seemed to have more gray separation. But nothing concrete on this, just a feeling.

I agree with Mark's point, this is not intrinsic to the process. Which brings me to one of my pet peeves.. many have not come to terms with the fact that good ink printing requires a commitment, just like any other "craft". Many have spent decades in the darkroom, probably most produced in the first decade long since worthy only of the trash, then spend no time really learning inkjet and make a judgement about the entire category based on entry level output.
T

[Kirk Gittings]

I agree with Mark's point, this is not intrinsic to the process. Which brings me to one of my pet peeves.. many have not come to terms with the fact that good ink printing requires a commitment, just like any other "craft". Many have spent decades in the darkroom, probably most produced in the first decade long since worthy only of the trash, then spend no time really learning inkjet and make a judgement about the entire category based on entry level output.
T

Totally agree. I encountered the "blah grays" too-I suspect every one does. But I encounter them often in silver printing too. In either case I find pushing them up/down the scale, or toning can solve the problem and or switching papers (or inks or developers) can solve the problem. I frankly have never found a quick inkjet or silver print to be satisfying. Sometimes a day but oftentimes longer and even much longer.

[Lenny Eiger]

Inkjet prints do not have a wider tonal range. In fact, most people print them with more narrow range. Masking is another simple darkroom process which was incorporated into the digital imaging process. I have been doing it for 60+ years.

I have seen quite a few prints made by people who claim they can match a platinum print.They shut up when their print is laid beside a good Pt/Pd print.
This question was brought up at a workshop a few years ago where Stephen Johnson and I were both making presentations. He told the group he couldn't match my prints and if they wanted to make a print like mine they would have to learn the processes I use. His expertise is enough for me and I certainly appreciated his remarks. If he can't match my prints on a computer, I doubt seriously that anyone can.

Oh, please. I do my best to give everyone that likes darkroom prints the respect they deserve. Everyone is welcome to like what they want. However, every time we have one of these conversations it always boils down to a bunch of bullies who insist that darkroom prints are great and inkjet is crap. It's tiresome and it destroys community.

Just a month or two ago it was claimed that a darkroom print was the original, "photographic" process. I had to remind people that it wasn't, that other processes we now call "alternate" were the originals. In fact, a few of them are far superior to darkroom printing; platinum, carbon and gravure, easily. You want a really dark black? Get yourself some black ink... and learn how to ink a plate. OTOH, if you have the right RIP, paper and printer, you can also slow the printer down enough to puddle the ink on the paper and get any kind of black you want. Of course, a solid black is not the only thing a print requires. I think its probably the least important factor, but that's just my opinion.

I may not have been doing this for 60 years, its only been 53; many years of my life in the dark. I have printed professionally since the early 1980's. At one point, my work hung right next to Ansel's in the window at Photography West in Carmel. I have done both darkroom and inkjet at the museum quality level. I have done a pile of different alt processes as well, altho' some just for a few quick tests. In fact, when I discovered platinum in the mid 80's, I never wanted to go back to the darkroom again. That's my personal preference. In fact, for the kind of work that I want to do its either alt process or inkjet. You couldn't make the kind of print I want to make, and that I do regularly, in a darkroom. Not even close.

Stephen Johnson is by no means the expert you imagine. I don't need to diss anyone, him included, so we can leave it at that. Inkjets easily have a wider tonal range (at least one and a half times), and much smoother tonal shifts between zones. Given the right materials and expertise, they are richer and more velvety than anything that can be accomplished with silver bromide paper. And there's no distracting gloss. And yes, I have one image where I have made an inkjet look exactly like the platinum print, sitting there side by side, regardless of Mr. Johnson. You wouldn't know the difference except that the inkjet has more separation in the shadows.

Now, if what you want is something that looks just like a darkroom print, by all means engage in that kind of printing. And be happy. And the lot of you should stop trying to bully everyone.

Lenny