Early Eastman 2 View Cameras - Why did the 2D get worse?

[goamules]

Hey, I should not have acted like the later No. 2s are 'bad', they aren't! I'm just a historian and lover of 19th century (or just after) craftsmanship, prior to the Industrial Age quashing the last remnants of handiwork. Wait....there I go again. The 2Ds are fine cameras. I have one in 5x7 and 8x10. I just like the older ones too!

I loved my Seneca Improved 8x10 too, but eventually sold it. When I got this Eastman, my first thought was to sell it. After cleaning and checking it, nope, too nice. I'm going to keep it. Anyone have a rear extension rail to sell me, with the pinned knob?!

[Tin Can]

I totally understand a collectors drive to complete a set. I have collected many different things over time. Tube radios, old VW, old Datsun, anything on 2 or 3 wheels, motorized or not. Vintage tools. I am fond of saying, if I was broke I would collect grains of sand and have a fine time of it! I have not met another enlarger collector yet...

I am working hard on my Horseman set and a few other oddities.

The Eastman 2 fell into my unsuspecting hands well before I even knew what it was and how rare a 7X11 is. It came in a buyout, which is the best way to get anything collectable. Buy the lot, for a lot less.

I encourage you to complete that 2D set, sounds like fun. Your last camera really tempted me also, but I bought more Horseman this month. Custom Horseman, very rare, one off. Playing with it tonight.


QUOTE=Roger Thoms;1133400]Randy, yeah I was going to say that you should think long and hard about selling your Eastman 2 7x11 as it is a very nice kit. If I do end up buying a 7x11 I'm inclined to get a 2D since I already have the 5x7, 6.5x8.5, & 8x10 2D's. Despite the 2D's short comings it would be kind of cool to have a complete set.

Roger[/QUOTE]

[Tin Can]

Sorry, no spare extension.

Hey, I should not have acted like the later No. 2s are 'bad', they aren't! I'm just a historian and lover of 19th century (or just after) craftsmanship, prior to the Industrial Age quashing the last remnants of handiwork. Wait....there I go again. The 2Ds are fine cameras. I have one in 5x7 and 8x10. I just like the older ones too!

I loved my Seneca Improved 8x10 too, but eventually sold it. When I got this Eastman, my first thought was to sell it. After cleaning and checking it, nope, too nice. I'm going to keep it. Anyone have a rear extension rail to sell me, with the pinned knob?!

[Roger Thoms]

Garrett, my 2D short comings comment was definitely tongue in cheek. Of coarse now I'll have to take a little closer look at the earlier Eastman #2's.

Roger

[Leonard Robertson]

goamules - So does your camera have a 7X11 back or an 8X10 back? The picture of the back looks more like 7X11 proportions, but it is hard to tell. As far as I know only the Eastman 7X11 had the wide sliding lensboard and two clips on top of the front standard to hold the folded-up front track. I suspect the front rise mechanism with two knobs is another 7X11-only feature, but I don't have an early 8X10 No. 1 or No.2 to look at, only a 2D. The 7X11 rear frame that the carrying handle attaches to measures roughly 12 3/4" wide. The 8X10 2D is about an inch narrower.

I agree the earlier cameras are much nicer to look at, but Eastman may have figured out the working photographers who bought them didn't care as much about appearance as we do today.

Len

[goamules]

Mine is a 8x10. It appears to be an original back.

[goamules]

Here are some of the features in the rear that I like.
1. Obvious screw for tightening swing
2. Elegant drop in catches for the back, not the later brass tabs that you have to feel to be sure the pins engaged the holes. These sit outside the pins, you don't have to worry about them.
3. Catch to stop from running off the rear is easy to disengage but simply lifting it up slightly, so you can run the rear standard to the bitter edge for folding. 2Ds have a difficult to manipulate catch.
4. Pinned rear extension I've talked about earlier. One quarter turn, it's on or off. Not screw...screw...screw.
5. Robust slotted rear rail catches, the rear rail has matching tabs that hook into the slots you cannot see. Strong.

[Brassai]

I think you've touched on the factors. In the late 1890s there were many small manufacturers popping up, each trying to find their market. Some were the bargain brand. Some were the value for the money brand (Seneca?) A few went after the premium market. Reading the early Century Camera catalogs I have to believe that was their strategy. Kodak seemed to buy out the more successful ones (Conley and Seneca got away from them!) No doubt there was a change in corporate philosophy with that too. Maybe they went from a proud owner wanting to build the best, to a division head wanting to show more return to his boss? Another factor might have been the cost advantages of mass production, but to get those required simpler designs. I also have to wonder just how much competition there was from European makers at that time, particularly German and English. There seems to have been an awful lot of Thornton & Pickard half plate cameras made. The English cameras are extremely finely finished-even the screw slots point the same way! But just maybe that's what kept the European makers at bay to some degree? The English were still using the old plate sizes and the Germans were metric. How easy would it have been to get film & dry plates in local American camera shops in all but the largest markets? As for ingenuity and craftsmanship, my 1908 Century Model 46 cycle camera compares very well to my Chamonix 045n, the product of another proud owner/maker.

[evan clarke]

Has anybody seen a Chamonix?.

[goamules]

Talking about Century, Eastman, and Kodak No. 2s here. But good points Brassai. These camera companies fit niches or levels, like the car companies later did. I think like Mark said earlier, they found they could still sell the cameras, if they were made a bit cheaper. Later, much later in the 1940s and 50s, Burke and James were still able to sell cameras painted Haze Gray, when Deardorff was sticking to natural wood and brass.

Interestingly the 1910 Eastman has more front rise, shift and rear swing and tilt than my later 1940s Kodak 2Ds. More movements....earlier.

Any way you look at it, the 1910s were probably the high point in American craftsmanship. For many products.