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Thread: Flash powders, an education.

  1. #1

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    Flash powders, an education.

    There was recently a thread about flash powders, I found it very interesting and then it got to the end of the thread and found that a few people were afraid of the technique and decided that it should be closed.

    This post is not meant to agitate the moderators, but it is meant to remind people about who we are and what we do.

    Every day we as film photographers go into the darkroom and safely handle very VERY dangerous chemicals, chemicals that can cause all sorts of health risks including death, we do this day in and day out to create beautiful and unique imagery. Many of these chemicals (like Rodinal and Pyro developers) are ORM-D (is that acronym right?) classified for shipping.

    And yet no one seems to complain about that, however, for some reason flash powder is scary to everyone?

    I want to kind of remind people that this is a forum that is about sharing information, information that is being lost and is slowly dying out because all the people that have the information are also dying out, and if we don't pass on this valuable information, the details will be lost forever.

    When I was about 11, my father, who is a chemist, taught me how to from scratch using household chemicals, create a substance that would get hot enough to ignite magnesium powder, and the only thing you needed to start the reaction was a single drop of water.

    Did we have fun? Yes. Was it dangerous? Yes. Did I learn something valuable? Yes. Did we put a hole in the cement of the backyard patio? Yes.... But did we have fun? And did we learn something? Yes yes yes.

    Did I end up making bombs and blowing stuff up? No of course not, because I was also taught to be safe and to use the knowledge properly.

    There are a million places on the Internet where someone could find info in order to use it to make something dangerous for an evil purpose, (I mean everyone knows about the "anarchists cookbook" that's been around since the mid 90's) and I highly doubt that simply sharing information about flash powder could somehow be more dangerous to anyone than half of the other stuff on the Internet, and I think limiting the sharing of information especially of historic value, is a dangerous path, and one that history has shown can lead to very very bad ends... It's a slippery slope, this censorship of information...

    Anyway, I will end this post by saying ...

    Any of the following information that may be contained within this thread posting and subsequent posts, are for informational purposes, and to aid in the techniques of creating photographic imagery using traditional methods, and should only be used for that purpose and that purpose alone, you should also acknowledge that by reading such information you will not hold liable the forum or any members thereof participating or not participating if you should happen to cause injury to yourself or others in the use of such information.

    By reading further you agree to the above.

    That should cover the forum for any liability concerns...

    Anyway, so if the moderators would permit me to continue? Please?

    Would anyone share some imagery they created using flash powders? Any technique and lessons learned personally? And only share formulas if you feel comparable doing so, and with a rider like the above so the mods can stay happy.

    I would really be interested in seeing some modern imagery using flash powder as the light source.

    Thanks.

    ~Stone

  2. #2
    Tim Meisburger's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    +1

    I've only seen images on the web, but it looks quite useful for lighting large areas. For people in the US, you can buy it at any theatre supply house.

    I have a little flash pan made in the 60s (I think) in England that has an 8 inch handle, a tray slightly larger than a small matchbox and a clockwork wider that sparks a lighter flint. Its cute, but I have yet to use it.

    Here is a link to some pictures of it. http://www.largeformatphotography.in...unted-shutters

  3. #3
    hacker extraordinaire
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    IBTL

    Somewhere I have an on-film comparison between my Niko speedlight, Novatron, and some flash powder. It is very interesting and I will try to dig it up.
    Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do.
    --A=B by Petkovšek et. al.

  4. #4

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Tim, thanks for the link, interesting, I would think they would be larger, I guess that's for "modern" powder as opposed to the larger amounts used in longer pans.

    PS nice shutters!!! What a find!

    And I look forward to the comparisons bettersense.

  5. #5

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    I'm guessing that back in the days of flash powder photography, photographers would make their own since the ingredients were much, much easier to buy. The making would involve measuring the chemicals precisely in order to get the right "flash" and in turn the right exposure. I know next to nothing about flash powder in photography, but I assume that the flash pan size, shape and the powder volume were all factored in to get the correct exposure.

    Alot of trial and error and information passed from other photographers, most likely lost to history.
    Signature deleted as to not offend certain people

  6. #6

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    That makes a lot of sense.

    Does anyone know if using flash powder produces more UV needed for collodion wet plate stuff? That could be an optimum way to get freeze frame shots? Or at least faster than 3 second exposures?

  7. #7
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    I see the point made by StoneNYC. One step in the wet collodien process involves nitrated cellulose aka "gun cotton", which can be explosive if not treated well. Looked at from the perspective of firearms and re-loading supplies I can see that there is a place for flash powder in photography.

    Shooter401: This "lost" information is well documented on Wikipedia under "Flash Powder". there is a discussion of ingredients and ratios. One key concept that is missing from this discussion so far is that the components are essentially inert separately. There is a product for firearms shooters called Tanerite (I think) that consists of two powders, ammonium nitrate and aluminum. The measured components are shipped together in separate packaging via UPS without any regulation. These premeasured powders are shaken togfether at the range and placed as a target. When struck by a bullet, the mixture explodes dramatically. It is available in quantity on e-bay. There is an article on Tanerite on Wikipedia too.

    With that in mind. I suppose a photographer could premeasure one-shot quantities of flash powder ingredients and make it up prior to each exposure. I get the idea that the amounts needed for an exposure are about the volume of a pill bottle. Just pour one into the other, cap and shake, then spread in the flash pan.
    Drew Bedo
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    http://www.artsyhome.com/author/drew-bedo




    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

  8. #8
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    That makes a lot of sense.

    Does anyone know if using flash powder produces more UV needed for collodion wet plate stuff? That could be an optimum way to get freeze frame shots? Or at least faster than 3 second exposures?

    Well, a lot of images were made with flash powder so I would think so. This is the trial-and-error part of old processes.
    Drew Bedo
    www.quietlightphoto.com
    http://www.artsyhome.com/author/drew-bedo




    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

  9. #9
    Richard Johnson
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Even if a lawyer wrote the best waiver/acknowledgement it still would not absolutely protect the private owner of this forum from a negligence lawsuit should something unfortunate happen so that an aggressive lawsuit was created, no matter how unsound and unjust. The problem here is not with the moderators but with our society, at least in the USA, where frivolous plaintiffs go on a money hunt in the courts. It doesn't matter if there is no cause for a case, the costs of defending yourself are significant and, once your insurance is cancelled because you were sued no matter how frivolously, you're left in a bad situation.

    In other words, do your flash powder experiments with personal injury attorneys and the politicians who enable them. But please don't expose the forum owner to this.

  10. #10
    Dominik
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Plenty of old photography manuals have flash powder formulas and you can view them on Google Books. I also hope that nobody on this forum uses sparklers at christmas or other parties as they are very close to flash powder in their formulation. Don't drive a Bugatti Atalante either as it's made out of magnesium. Also google Flashpowder everyone and their mothers seem to have a formula and are willing to present it on the web.

    Maybe a huge disclaimer is the solution: The fabrication or use of.... might cause blindness, death, etc....
    Don't use these .... without professional supervision....

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