Buying New Copal Shutters for LF Film Photography?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Look again at the citation that precedes my answer. Could that be what "I'm talking about?" As to your logic, it seems I'm not the only one to be surprised by its reasoning, doesn't it?

I admit that I am puzzled. All I hoped to express is one way LF photographers can acquire shutters without paying like-new prices.

What is wrong with that?

[hoffner]

Nothing. Live well!

[Jac@stafford.net]

Nothing. Live well!

I should remember that 'facetious' is more important than just the answer to a silly puzzle.

Best,
Jac

[Francisco J. Fernández]

Hello, you plug COPAL you (# 1?) If I need to explain your need, maybe I can give him one of # 1 because I have several (FREE shipping too).

Well, looks like you do not care ... for nothing, will continue in its box.

no more gifts.

[Drew Wiley]

Nowadays you can simply buy some used lens with the correct shutter for far less than a shutter alone.

[AuditorOne]

I admit that I am puzzled. All I hoped to express is one way LF photographers can acquire shutters without paying like-new prices.

What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that Jac. I did not intend to indicate there was, and I do not believe that hoffner did either.

My own point is that sometimes this belief in what may or may not be more economical traps us, as well as the industry, especially if everyone blindly accepts the fact that buying used is always more economical.

For example, I myself have done exactly as you suggested. I cruised the mighty auction in the ethernet looking for inexpensive solutions to my wants and needs. Occasionally it has worked. But occasionally it has not. If it doesn't I either return said product, if I can, and go looking again. Or, I have sometimes sent items out for repair. I think this is probably a somewhat familiar flow of events for many of us.

However. What we fail to consider while we are engaged in all this is the actual cost to us. Because there is a cost. Monetarily it may have been less (although even that is not always true if we were honest about it), but when you incorporate the time spent, the time away from pursuing our hobby or business, the lost opportunity costs, we would probably realize that it would have been more economical to buy new.

If we bought new from time to time when we needed these things we do experience benefits. The item has a warranty. It is likely to work as expected right out of the box. It usually comes with all the parts and pieces we need, and if not, it will almost always have literature included that tells us how the shutter performs, and what additional accessories we may like to have.

But there are extended benefits as well. In buying new we support the manufacturing industry that produces these shutters, or that may consider producing them if there was a viable market. And it isn't only shutters, it is also film holders and other items. You or I may have the required skills to construct a film holder, but does everyone who may want to shoot large format? Or are they also doomed to playing Ebay Roulette

As I mentioned earlier. I have no problem buying used, I do it a lot. I have no problem with you or anyone else buying used. But if EVERYONE buys used then no one will build new things, because no one is buying them. If this goes on long enough then pretty soon you run out of parts. This is not likely to happen in my lifetime. But it probably will happen in my grandson's lifetime. This mean that all the time I have spent training him to shoot an 8x10 field camera may be wasted because, even if he were inclined to use one, he may not be able to find it or keep it running if he does.

Actually, though a lot of time is spent speculating about the future of film, that really is not our biggest problem. Film can be made from scratch. You may not want to do it but you can mix up your own emulsion and coat glass plates or other objects relatively easily. But building shutters, lenses, or some other parts is not quite as easy.

Sorry about this long post. It really is only an observation. I hope you have a great week and have a chance to make some beautiful photographs soon.

[Regular Rod]

There is nothing wrong with that Jac. I did not intend to indicate there was, and I do not believe that hoffner did either.

My own point is that sometimes this belief in what may or may not be more economical traps us, as well as the industry, especially if everyone blindly accepts the fact that buying used is always more economical.

For example, I myself have done exactly as you suggested. I cruised the mighty auction in the ethernet looking for inexpensive solutions to my wants and needs. Occasionally it has worked. But occasionally it has not. If it doesn't I either return said product, if I can, and go looking again. Or, I have sometimes sent items out for repair. I think this is probably a somewhat familiar flow of events for many of us.

However. What we fail to consider while we are engaged in all this is the actual cost to us. Because there is a cost. Monetarily it may have been less (although even that is not always true if we were honest about it), but when you incorporate the time spent, the time away from pursuing our hobby or business, the lost opportunity costs, we would probably realize that it would have been more economical to buy new.

If we bought new from time to time when we needed these things we do experience benefits. The item has a warranty. It is likely to work as expected right out of the box. It usually comes with all the parts and pieces we need, and if not, it will almost always have literature included that tells us how the shutter performs, and what additional accessories we may like to have.

But there are extended benefits as well. In buying new we support the manufacturing industry that produces these shutters, or that may consider producing them if there was a viable market. And it isn't only shutters, it is also film holders and other items. You or I may have the required skills to construct a film holder, but does everyone who may want to shoot large format? Or are they also doomed to playing Ebay Roulette

As I mentioned earlier. I have no problem buying used, I do it a lot. I have no problem with you or anyone else buying used. But if EVERYONE buys used then no one will build new things, because no one is buying them. If this goes on long enough then pretty soon you run out of parts. This is not likely to happen in my lifetime. But it probably will happen in my grandson's lifetime. This mean that all the time I have spent training him to shoot an 8x10 field camera may be wasted because, even if he were inclined to use one, he may not be able to find it or keep it running if he does.

Actually, though a lot of time is spent speculating about the future of film, that really is not our biggest problem. Film can be made from scratch. You may not want to do it but you can mix up your own emulsion and coat glass plates or other objects relatively easily. But building shutters, lenses, or some other parts is not quite as easy.

Sorry about this long post. It really is only an observation. I hope you have a great week and have a chance to make some beautiful photographs soon.

This is a mirror of why I posted the thread in the first place. I'm fed up with "eBay roulette". I'm fed up with perpetually compensating for some fault in a second -hand item that I cannot fix, or afford to have fixed. The remedy is surely to buy new. It may cost me more in price but will save me all the waste you describe above.

RR

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hello from old Europe

Without entering the debate regarding the price or usefulness of new vs. second-hand mechanical Japanese-made shutters for LF lenses, the situation is as follows: to the best of my knowledge, this is the list of currently available LF lens shutters, and except Packard shutters, all are electro-mechanical and I'll make no comment regarding their price tag.
If you are aware of any other kind of new shutters suitable for LF lenses, I'll appreciate to know.
And I do not know if Sinar DB shutters, known as "Copal Sinar" in their 100% mechanical version, are still available as new items. If Copal discontinued mechanical shutters, there is a high probability that mechanical Copal-Sinar are discontinued.

The Packard shutter, crafted with pride in the USA! http://www.packardshutter.com
Yes one can argue that Packard shutters do not provide the same service as a Compur, Prontor ir Copal, but we are here to make an inventory of what is actually useable for LF lenses, available as a new item still in fabrication, and not new-old-stock-of-discontinued-items; therefore all categories of shutters for LF photography are admitted in this list, except the legendary French béret manual shutter dedicated to long exposure times (the ideal companion of your waterfall shots), which could appear as too provocative here.

The Rollei, made by DHW - Braunschweig, Germany
http://rolleiflex.us/collections/all/shutter

The Rodenstock electronic shutter, as presented at the 2012 Photokina; I remember that Sinar at its nearby booth had something very similar.
http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/en/main/news/eshutter/

The Schneider electronic shutter
http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en...ssories/#c1750

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As they say on http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/
Wide-Angel

I have always believed that a Wide Angel was looking upon me when I was taking LF pictures over 70° of field angle

[EH21]

Hi Emmanuel,

Just to add to your list, I think Seiko may still be making some mechanical shutters and also DHW has their new USB controlled HS-1000 shutter. I have two of the HS-1000 shutters in my hands now for testing and they are quite promising. I do think Sinar also has a electronic shutter too, and Horseman made some electronic shutters but not sure if they are still available new.

Regards,
Eric Hiss
Rolleiflex USA