selenum toning after prints have dried?

[Ben Calwell]

Is there any harm in selenium toning prints that have already been washed and dried? If it's Ok, what is the procedure? Do I put them into a tray of water and then into my usual wash aid mixed with selenium and then wash them again? I did a printing session today, and at the end, realized that I'm out of selenium toner. My beloved local photography store closed a few years ago, so now I must order everything, including toner, from out of state.

[Mark Woods]

Just soak your prints for about 5 minutes, then tone them. It's important to not put dry prints into the toner. Look at Tim Rudman for more information.

[John Olsen]

As Mark says, soak 'em and tone 'em. I think most people save up prints for a toning day so they can maximize the ventilation and minimize their exposure to nasty fumes. At least that's my habit.
Don't lean over the tray and keep a fan going for some kind of cleaner air.

[DennisD]

The prints should tone normally even after being dried. I never had a problem doing this.
However, a very careful pre-soak, as Mark mentioned above, is most important. Wet prints will tone evenly, i.e. no mottling.

[Ben Calwell]

Thanks very much. I thought that must be the case. I'd always toned when my prints were still wet, but never after they'd dried.

[jeroldharter]

sometimes I would do batch toning. I would soak maybe 10 prints in a tray to pre-wet. then move to selenium and interleave the sheets for the desired time so that I would tone 10 prints at once and then transfer to the washer.

[Doremus Scudder]

Is there any harm in selenium toning prints that have already been washed and dried? If it's Ok, what is the procedure? Do I put them into a tray of water and then into my usual wash aid mixed with selenium and then wash them again? I did a printing session today, and at the end, realized that I'm out of selenium toner. My beloved local photography store closed a few years ago, so now I must order everything, including toner, from out of state.

Ben,

Yes, as all the answers above indicate, you can tone prints at any time after washing and drying, just give them a pre-soak first. I usually print and give the first fix, then wash and dry my prints. Then later, after I've collected enough and culled the rejects, I have a toning session that includes pre-soak, fix 2, toner, wash-aid, wash, stabilizer, squeegee, dry.

Might I be so bold as to suggest a couple of changes to your work flow?

First, even though manufacturers seem to recommend it, there is no good reason to mix your toner with wash aid. There is a fundamental problem with this, in my view. Simply put, the capacity and lifespan of the wash aid is significantly less than that of the toner. This means, if you want the advantages of the wash aid, that you have to discard a lot of active selenium toner as soon as the capacity/lifespan of the wash aid is reached. This is uneconomical and environmentally irresponsible and, as you have just experienced, you go through a lot of toner and run out just when you don't want to

My suggestion would be to use the wash aid as a separate step after the toner. I mix one liter of wash aid for 36-40 8x10 prints (or equivalent). The prints go directly from the toner to the wash aid.

Then, you can get more out of your toner. And, if you replenish your toner when the activity becomes to low, you can simply filter it and keep it practically forever. Here's the procedure: When toning times become too long, simply add a small amount of toner stock solution to the working solution (I use about an ounce per liter usually; and pardon the mixed units...). Add enough to bring the toner back to comfortable toning times. If you accidentally make it too strong, just dilute.

Now, when you're done toning pour your toner back into a storage bottle through a coffee filter or paper towel in a funnel. When ready to tone again, simply pour into the tray through a filter again and you're ready to tone. Toner will last for years like this. A black precipitate forms that needs to be filtered out, but it has no adverse affect on the prints (it is likely silver selenide or silver selenide sulfate, a normal toning product). I have two gallon bottles of toner that have been going like this for 10+ years. Just so you know, I routinely test my prints for residual hypo and silver and have never had a problem with this method.

One advantage: Toner used like this is very economical; in the last five years I have not used more that two 1-liter bottles of Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner. And, I never run out

The one thing that this method requires is that you tone visually, i.e., observe the tone change of the print and remove it from the toner when the desired tone change has been reached. This, IMO is the only really consistent way to tone anyway, but that's another subject.

I've posted about this a lot here and on APUG if you need more info.

Best,

Doremus

[Bruce Barlow]

Doremus gets it right. I tone in batches, later, too. Mostly because toning is so incredibly boring, and because by the time I'm finished printing, I'm beat, and just want to run screaming out of my darkroom towards a full wine bottle. The problem with being an Old Guy.

I soak the prints in water while I get everything else set up, then fix a second time. People alawys told me to use plain hypo as a second fix, and I did until I ran out once and tried fresh TF-4. It worked fine, and I've done that ever since. I use toner diluted in water, too, and it pretty much lasts forever. I also tone by eye, with the clock running and visible, because the time will vary. I remember doing my printing paper tests, toning ten different papers at a time, with the noble aspiration of recording how long they took to tone. Then they started changing at different times, and I was hard-pressed to get each of them out of the toner when they looked good. Forget about recording the time. That was in the days before I had a beautiful blonde assistant helping me. I'm still in the days before that.

I keep a 100-sheet paper box labeled "To Be Toned," and put the candidates in it after they've dried.

Happy Toning!

[IanG]

I'll second the way Doremus suggests, I've been doing the same for the last 28 years and it's extremely easy and economic.

Often I don't have time or daylight at the end of a printing session so after washing I dry the prints and then tone later.

Ian

[Ben Calwell]

That's terrific advice -- thanks very much. I'm going to cease mixing selenium toner with my wash aid. In fact, I think I have an old bottle of toner mix that I stored thinking it was exhausted, but didn't want to pour down the drain. Maybe I'll filter it as suggested and see what happens. I think the mixture must be at least three years old. Perhaps it's still good?