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Thread: This is going to be hard ...

  1. #1
    45-57-617
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    This is going to be hard ...

    but I'll try to give it a go.

    I realise that this forum will have any number of 'religious fanatics' - religious about LF and film that is ... but I am on a bit of an edge. A "Do I, or don't I ?" kind of edge.

    Given the current state of the industry - the new Harman papers, the fall of manufacturers, the slight increase in take up in analog photography etc, etc. would you recommend investing into a darkroom of more serious dimensions ?

    In another way, can the digital printing world really produce an archive print ? Is it only a matter of time ?

    I think the archivability is the only real issue that might separate the analogue and digital worlds to be honest. To the ordinary person off the street I'm sure that the digital simulation is good enough and quite frankly, they probably assume it is digital. I'm not sure they value analogue. Museum curators value longevity. There is no argument from the analogue side but are these curators happy with digital ?

    So. Please just the cold hard facts. Try to keep the belief systems at bay !

    Let's say a figure of 15 - 20k for the darkroom cost - that should keep some emotions out of it! Would you do it ?

    I guess at that figure you'd want to be getting a return on investment even if that return were to take 5 - 8 years to be realised so that means making it a hired darkroom.

    I'm thinking its all a bit much really but I'd value some insight especially if you think there is a niche market or product that can be gained through the darkroom process.

    Cheers !

    Steve

  2. #2

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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Do whatever you and your work requires. Museum curators won't hinge their decision to acquire or exhibit based on inkjet vs traditional.

    You do your thing and let them worry about their thing.

    --Darin

  3. #3

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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    I put together a darkroom for under $500. I print up to 16x20. It would have cost me at least $2000 to do that digitally

  4. #4
    lenser's Avatar
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    I'm not qualified to speak to the archival qualities of digital, so I will only say that I have four enlargers that I hope to soon install in a production darkroom with two sinks and an attached work room for mounting, spotting, etc. It may or may not happen, but I want it and my soul needs it. I personally simply love the analog work and find none of the joy in digital work. Just my opinion and nothing judgmental about digital...simply my response to the two worlds.
    "One of the greatest necessities in America is to discover creative solitude." Carl Sandburg

  5. #5
    Dominik
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Regarding the costs of a darkroom they are much lower than your estimate of 15-20k one thing the digital revolution has done is lowered the prices of pre-owned darkroom equipment a good enlarger can be had for hundreds instead of thousands of dollars. In the end the important thing is what you prefer and which workflow you like better. Curators prefer archival processes but if the photographer is important enough or the work good enought they care a lot less.

  6. #6
    45-57-617
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Guys,

    I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

    I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

    Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

    :-)

  7. #7
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    I'm about to build a new darkroom, too long a story but I moved abroad in 2006 and had limited access to my old darkroom after that.

    In recent months/past year I've acquired 3 enlargers for free (inc LF 5x4 although I gave the same away 7-8 years ago). I already have others (it'll be a teaching darkroom). Even factoring what I've paid for a De Vere 5108 etc I'd be looking at $2000 maximum cost.

    I can print digital or analogue, to similar quality.I just prefer darkroom prints.

    Ian

  8. #8
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Do what you like to do, or else you won't do it well to begin with, or take the trouble to master it, which will take a lot of time and committment, regardless. Just
    having the gear is only the starting gate to the race. That is a cold hard fact. Next fact: darkroom gear is cheaper than ever and some of it seems to last forever. Sometimes you can get industrial quality machines for downright free. Third fact: there are currently no supply issues either with conventional black and white films and papers or RA4 color products. But I obviously don't know the specific complications of all this in AUS. Look up a fellow named Andy Cross. He does it all down
    there - digital, conventional color darkroom, even dye transfer and color carbon.

  9. #9
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Build the darkroom, buy lots of paper for printing and go for it .
    Quote Originally Posted by swmcl View Post
    Guys,

    I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

    I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

    Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

    :-)

  10. #10

    Re: This is going to be hard ...

    Quote Originally Posted by swmcl View Post
    Guys,

    I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

    I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

    Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

    :-)
    Contact Gordon Undy at Point Light Gallery in Sydney. He may be able to provide a lead or two on finding LF enlargers in Australia. Hope this helps.

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