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Thread: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

  1. #1
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    Angry Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    I've been trying to install the f stop scales on a Copal #! shutter for about an hour. Is there some kind of trick to this?

    I've used all of the English variants of foul language and am now using Google to find other language versions that may be helpful...

    Why wouldn't they just install the scales when they make the shutter? Anyway... any idea for how to get the screws started?

    Also- there was a thin metal ring taped to the face of the shutter that the lens screws in. It looks like it's the same diameter as the ring that that holds the shutter on the lens board but no threads. What's that for?

  2. #2

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    1: Shutters are made by one company. Lenses by other companies. The shutter company has no way of knowing what focal length lens or what speed lens the lens manufacturers will install in the shutter. There fore the shutter maker sends the shutters with blank scales. The lens manufacturers supply the marked scales.
    2: We magnetize a screw driver to install the screws. If your scres are not ferrous then dampen the blade of the screw driver and that should give adequate adhesion to get it started.

    Are you installing new scales with new screws or old scales or screws?

    3: Are they the correct screws?

    Is this a new shutter or a used shutter? Who supplied the shutter? When we sell a shutter from Rodenstock there is no shim ring supplied taped to the shutter. Any required shims we supply separately. It sounds kind of like you bought a used shutter with no scales and who ever sold it removed a lens that required a shim and just taped the shim to the shutter. A picture would probably clear this question up. Not of only the ring but where and how it is taped on as well as a picture of the ring itself.

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    (1) It's a used Copal #1 (looks new though) shutter. The aperture scales came with it. At the moment there is no lens for it. Since f stop is the opening through the blades of the shutter and those are a fixed range I'm having trouble understanding why the aperture scale would be different based on the lens rather than the shutter. Either way, the aperture scales came with the shutter.

    (2) Stainless screws. Very small.

    (3) The screws came out of the shutter body.

    He didn't tape the ring to the shutter, he taped it to the machined face that the lens mates to.

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    Hi Michael,

    The diameter of the aperture is determined by the opening of the blades of the shutter, but the f-stop is a function of that and the lens focal length. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can provide the exact formula. This results in one lens being f5.6 wide open while another might be f6.8. So the shutter will require different scales depending on the lens installed. Hope that helps.

    Karl

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    That's what I love about large format photography... there is always something new to learn. With 35mm and DSLR nobody pays attention to the lens and shutter because they are integral and "they are what they are".

    Thanks for the heads up. Basically, until I select a lens for the shutter I just bought I don't really need to worry about the scales...

    Thanks for the heads up

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    No problem, it is seemingly complicated sometimes isn't it. I would be interested to learn how the scales are actually installed. All I know it is different depending on the lens. So from my perspective you certainly should match the shutter up with a particular lens before you do anything further. Cheers.

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    Yeah... I have an extra lens board, with a Copal #1 hole in it, for my Sinar F2 so I thought... hey that's a good deal on a Copal #! shutter and I "need" to put a shutter and lens on that board some day, may as well start with the shutter. Newb mistake...

    The scales just attach to the shutter. It's like they were made for it. They match the screwhole pattern perfectly. It took the smallest jewelers screwdriver that I had to take the screws out. Now I'll just be happy to get them back in so I can store or sell the shutter. It looks like a new one.

    I just did a lens inventory for my F2. I have: 75mm Sinaron, 90mm Grandagon-N, 135mm Fujinon-W, 210mm Sironar-N MC, and a 300mm Apo-Sironar-N

    In case you're wondering, this stuff has been sitting for a long time. I just started shooting with it seriously a few months ago. I had to get over the film processing phobia that I had

    I also inventoried the Linhof (mounted) lenses And I have a 90mm Grandagon-N, 105mm Kreuznach Super Symmar, 150mm Super Sironar-N, and a 210mm Nikkor-W.

    I don't see a gap that needs another lens. Should've dug all this stuff out sooner I guess. I don't know what I would use the Copal #1 for at this point, I guess I'll box it up in case one of the Copal #1's that I have goes bad? Idk... it's all fairly new stuff. The Fujinon has a different style of shutter snd the Nikkor shutter is branded Nikon but looks like a Copal.

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Lloyd View Post
    That's what I love about large format photography... there is always something new to learn. With 35mm and DSLR nobody pays attention to the lens and shutter because they are integral and "they are what they are".

    Thanks for the heads up. Basically, until I select a lens for the shutter I just bought I don't really need to worry about the scales...

    Thanks for the heads up
    Shutters for the past few decades have been made in 3 sizes; 0, 1 and 3. The size of the shutter required is dependent on the size of the mounting threads of the lens to be mounted.
    Generally modern lenses from a focal length of 23mm to 150mm fit a 0 shutter. Lnese from 180 to 210mm are in a 1 size shutter and longer lenses fit a 3. There are exceptions to this. A 150 Apo Sironar and Apo Sironar W fit a 1. A 115 Grandagon was in a 1. A 240 Apo Ronar was in a 1.

    So, what lens are you trying to mount in a shutter? If it is a modern Rodenstock we can get the proper scales. If it is a modern Schneider they can get you the proper scales.

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    Re: Copal 1 installing f stop scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon - HP Marketing View Post
    Shutters for the past few decades have been made in 3 sizes; 0, 1 and 3. The size of the shutter required is dependent on the size of the mounting threads of the lens to be mounted.
    Generally modern lenses from a focal length of 23mm to 150mm fit a 0 shutter. Lnese from 180 to 210mm are in a 1 size shutter and longer lenses fit a 3. There are exceptions to this. A 150 Apo Sironar and Apo Sironar W fit a 1. A 115 Grandagon was in a 1. A 240 Apo Ronar was in a 1.

    So, what lens are you trying to mount in a shutter? If it is a modern Rodenstock we can get the proper scales. If it is a modern Schneider they can get you the proper scales.

    Bob, the problem is that I wasn't trying to mount a lens... just a shutter to a board. Obviously I had no idea what I was doing (or talking about). It's been a good education though... I put the screws back where they belong and the shutter is put away.

    Thanks for your help and sorry for the trouble.

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