grade 4 paper vs. vc paper and Chromega head

[Steve Sherman]

Steve, I am not saying just tome it but tone it and use other paper fixes. FYI, I tone a well fixed and washed neg in straight Selenium (yes I said straight) for a couple of minutes and get more than 1/2 a grade.

Kirk, It's all in the eye of the beholder. Andrew makes a good point about without enough density then the selenium will have little effect. Hard to tell from scan but if the densities are all up on the straight line then the proportionate gain will be less. As Kirk, I use selenium straight to tone negs with the added benefit of saving the selenium toner (from pyro negs) and using it to tone prints which imparts a touch of gold rather then the usual red / brown tone associated with selenium toning and silver gelatin prints.
As Kirk said real gains are realized when a number of small gains combine for a significant improvement in the direction one strives for. Cheers.

[Drew Wiley]

Same reason why it's difficult to make a lith mask ... if the whole neg is very thin, with very little differentiation between the highest and lowest densities, then lith
film is going to view the whole damn thing as almost clear, and itself be incapable of differentiating much. You really need a film capable of a very very gentle
straight line right off the toe, but that's not going to be a very practical answer here either.

[Kirk Gittings]

Kirk, It's all in the eye of the beholder. Andrew makes a good point about without enough density then the selenium will have little effect. Hard to tell from scan but if the densities are all up on the straight line then the proportionate gain will be less. As Kirk, I use selenium straight to tone negs with the added benefit of saving the selenium toner (from pyro negs) and using it to tone prints which imparts a touch of gold rather then the usual red / brown tone associated with selenium toning and silver gelatin prints.
As Kirk said real gains are realized when a number of small gains combine for a significant improvement in the direction one strives for. Cheers.

Actually I doubt I've ever tried it with a negative like that.

[Mike Reyburn]

I use a Ilford Grade 5 MG filter when I need more contrast than is available using the maximum 170M on by enlargers (Durst M70 & LPL 4550XLG). The 31 step tablet image on the right shows at least a grade higher contrast vs the adjacent 170M tablet.

[vinny]

Mike, I tried that on my Chromega and to my surprise, it didn't give me more contrast.

[Greg Blank]

Old Chromega heads ended at 150CC, Newer ones ended at 170cc. Typically you would need to add more Magenta to get to get a grade five. The only way to know if you can get a grade five is to print a step wedge and read the contrast curve with a densitometer. I have seen many examples of old Forte paper that using dektol would produce a grade less than the stated grade. I would say Fomabrom
could be a better start. The thing to figure is what is the contrast index of the negative,....that is the best thing to establish.

So I've got some low contrast negs (lots of them) that don't print well even at "grade 5"* (170M) on my color head with vc fiber (kentmere glossy). I'd like to stick with ansco 130 developer. Will using something like grade 4 fomabrom do better?





*it has been said that you can't obtain gr5 or even gr4 using a colorhead. Both my 4x5 and 10x10 enlargers use Chromega colorheads.

[Drew Wiley]

Like I said, just project thru a deep blue 47 or 47B separation filter - that will hit the high-contrast blue-sensitive layer of the paper selectively, much better than
maxing out your magenta setting. At that point, you're only limited by the hypothetical grade range of the paper itself.

[Greg Blank]

I suppose that will work, I think either way its a long exposure on the paper. Knowing what grade the paper is capable of and what CI the negative has, are two benefits.

Like I said, just project thru a deep blue 47 or 47B separation filter - that will hit the high-contrast blue-sensitive layer of the paper selectively, much better than
maxing out your magenta setting. At that point, you're only limited by the hypothetical grade range of the paper itself.

[vinny]

Greg, the exposures with the #47 filter won't be long since the negs i'm dealing with are typically thin and the Chromega head has so much extra power, especially in White light mode.