Scanning Mounted 8x10 Film Epson Flatbed

[spacegoose]

I'm trying to pick up this technique.

So far I've tried mounting the negative on a thick piece of 11x14 normal glass, rising it with 4 pennies, and think the results are OK.

I picked up a piece of 11x14, thin anti-reflection / museum glass, and will try that too.

The museum glass has instructions printed on the edge telling which side the art faces vs which side is the outside.

I plan to mount the emulsion side to the side that says the artwork is supposed to face, and not the outside, is that right, will I see any difference?

So far, with the normal piece of glass, the main issue I am having is placing the mounted glass in a manner that preview scan will pick up all the film edges. I preview and move it many times (increasing dust), to get this right, and it never seems totally right!

I seem to think, with the film area guide in place, placing the mounted glass over it in such a way that the bottom and right sides of the neg align with maybe a 1/16th inch gap works (that was my experience with direct on glass scans), but there is some play in the film area guide up and left, and things seem like they might be reversed when trying to figure out why the top, bottom, left, or right border isn't scanning. E.g. I'm not sure, but sometimes I think if the bottom border is cut off, it means I should move image down ... can anyone confirm?

Does anyone not use film area guide?

Any tricks for getting the mounted negative in place right each time? I have considered masking the correct 8x10 negative area on the glass with 1/4" white paper tape, but it seemed to cause more problems, or I had no registration system, that would allow it to be effective, having a mask is good for mounting, but the glass still needs to be correctly placed (over the film area guide), masking might make that harder to determine visually each time. Anyone use a mask for film placement on mounting glass?

Since my glass is 11x14, it extends all around the platen, and over the registration area, I wonder if I should mount the negative in such a way that it is near the top edge of the mounting glass, so I can insure no clear glass is hanging over the registration / calibration area?

I've seen the weird vertical lines on certain previews using the film area guide, when the glass is over this registration area (which so far is always), though not consistently. Slight adjustments, and subsequent previews / scans don't have them.

Do smaller cuts of glass work better (e.g. one that would fit directly over the film area guide, and not the registration / calibration area), my rationale for going 11x14 was the ease with which I could access the penny risers, and no risk of getting the risers in the scan.

I tried mounting with the paper tape mentioned earlier, but that messes up the borders.

Lately, based on reading something here, I am using crystal clear scotch like tape, but it is harder to remove and can leave residue, though it is harder to see and easier to correct in Photoshop.

Any tips on mounting techniques and getting perfect registration (e.g. straight, and can see all the edges / borders) every time?


Thanks,
Bill

[Lachlan 717]

You don't mention which model, but I'll assume it's a V700/750.

These have 2 lenses - basically one for glass level scanning and the other (Hi Res) for the elevated film holders.

Unfortunately, the latter has reduced scanning area. It does not cover 8x10. So, by resting the 11x14 glass above the Scanner's glass whilst using the lower Res lens, you will not have the film in focus. Conversely, if you select the High Res lens, you will not cover the film size.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I futzed with that problem for so many years that I broke down and bought a Creo/Scitex Eversmart II. Good luck, unfortunately I don't have a solution for you.

[spacegoose]

You don't mention which model, but I'll assume it's a V700/750.

These have 2 lenses - basically one for glass level scanning and the other (Hi Res) for the elevated film holders.

Unfortunately, the latter has reduced scanning area. It does not cover 8x10. So, by resting the 11x14 glass above the Scanner's glass whilst using the lower Res lens, you will not have the film in focus. Conversely, if you select the High Res lens, you will not cover the film size.

My understanding is using the film area guide and dry mounting the negative on glass (raising it slightly) is the way to get the best 8x10 scans with the 4990 and v700/750 scanners.

Focusing depends on the riser height. Focusing is not my problem, I'm using a penny per corner of glass and the focus is fine.

Among other things, I'd like to know the best way to mount and place the mounted negative over the film area guide so the preview is straight, centered, with all borders showing,

each time, without having to adjust and preview multiple times.

Thanks,
Bill

[Ari]

For registration, I have pieces of masking tape with arrows on them, showing me where the 8x10 film should sit.
The tape is fixed on the scanner body, outside the scanning area.
I get pretty close, but some adjustment is required occasionally.

[spacegoose]

For registration, I have pieces of masking tape with arrows on them, showing me where the 8x10 film should sit.
The tape is fixed on the scanner body, outside the scanning area.
I get pretty close, but some adjustment is required occasionally.

Thanks for the info Ari,

Are you using the film area guide in addition to your tape system?
How are you mounting the film?

Bill

[Ari]

Thanks for the info Ari,

Are you using the film area guide in addition to your tape system?

Bill

Bill, I alternate between the two, but not for any particular reason.
Also, I have trouble keeping 8x10 film perfectly flat, so sometimes I will tape it directly to the scanner bed.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I don't understand why some people are having to raise the negative slightly above the scanner glass... I tried wet mounting an 8x10 negative directly on the scanner glass and the resulting scan is sharp. Raising it even slightly results in an unsharp scan. Has anyone tried wet mounting directly on the scanner?
I removed the scanner glass casing (easy to do after you pop off the 4 plastic plugs and then remove 4 screws) and placed it on top of my light table. This made it a lot easier to see what I was doing and also kept the mounting fluid away from the scanner.

[spacegoose]

Thanks for the info Andrew,

For 8x10, I think in lieu of wet mounting, dry mounting on a piece of glass raised above the platen, is the way to go for the best possible Epson flatbed scans.

I don't seem to have trouble with focus, though maybe it is achieved somewhat via unsharp mask

Dry scanning on the platen is prone to Newton Rings.

I've carefully attempted a wet mount direct to platen many months ago with a color 5x7 negative (with fluid below emulsion only, and nothing to sandwich on top). I don't recall the results, they were OK I think, but I didn't like the possibility of damaging the scanner.

I have decided wet mounting is probably the way to go and will try with a Kami kit from Aztek, though will still use the mount on raised glass above platen technique, I think ...

I spoke to a technician at LTI a few days ago who showed me their wet mount process using the Kami system and a Creo Eversmart Supreme 2 flatbed.

He said dry scans tend to look more dry, describing that as a characteristic of the grain when unsharp masking.

Though on that system, I think the mount is also directly to the platen (which is easily removable - but the scan on that system might happen from above, which is above the mylar) - maybe I will try direct to platen too ... though unless it's easy to remove and reseat all the time on the Epson, I don't think I want to, plus I think it would introduce dust inside the scanner?

Interestingly, the Creo Eversmart Supreme 2 makes multiple passes and stitches the image, which can sometimes lead to issues with continuous tone areas like backdrops, etc., apparently.

Do you find removing the scanner glass is necessary to properly mount 8x10 film on the platen? How did you deal with the film area guide and proper placement when mounting negative (to get all the borders and straight scans)? Which scanner model do you have? I have a 4990 and V700.

Thanks,
Bill

[Andrew O'Neill]

For 8x10, I think in lieu of wet mounting, dry mounting on a piece of glass raised above the platen, is the way to go for the best possible Epson flatbed scans.

Hi Bill, let me see if I understand this... So, you dry mount on glass with the neg taped tightly to the underside of the glass, then lift the glass slightly above the scanner? Do you have the scanner set to film area guide? Set to film holder I see doesn't cover 8x10. Are you using AN glass? Is the negative's emulsion facing down? I've tried this way using various heights, but still, scans appeared sharpest when taken from the scanner glass.
Cheers!