4x5 camera and 6x17 film back

[igore]

I guess this is never ending story. So I will not ask for the best camera out there, I think best one is yet to be made and is only still in someone's head instead of production.

So, after some thought I have decided to try out 4x5 cameras on top of millions of formats I am already practising at the moment. But, of course, as being on a tight budget I was hoping to buy a 4x5 camera (used ) and a back for 6x17. At the moment I already have dedicated 6x17 camera, but will have to sell if I want to buy 4x5. (just cant have it all). I really love 6x17 format and would like to keep using it on a 4x5 camera as well. There seems to be a lot written about this combo even on this forum, yet still I don`t know what to do.

1. How is actually possible to get 6x17 format from a 4x5 camera. 4x5 is much smaller then 6x17. I know it is possible, with some limitations. Are they that bad. I have Schneider 90XL and Nikor 210W. I assume 90XL would be OK, but 210 not. I am right. I mainly use 90 anyway, so that is juts fine by me, maybe I would buy 150 in future, depends.

2. Which camera. Shen-hao, Toyo, Wista, ...I would probably go for second hand. What are my options. Suggestions are welcome. Not monorail.

3. Worst case I have to go for 5x7 camera, how difficult is to use 4x5 film on those cameras. I would prefer to stay at 4x5 the go for 5x7, just because I love 6x17.

4. What is mayor difference/benefit between a folding and non-folding cameras.

5. Which 6x17 (non motorised is just fine) except Da-yi and ShenHao are there and on which cameras can they be used.

Any help advise will be welcome.

[richardman]

The 6x17 back has an extension, effectively moving the film plane back. For this reason, you can't go longer than 150mm or thereabout. I started out with a Shenhao 617 myself and just purchased a Crown. I will be getting a Chamonix F1 when $$ is available, and at that point, I may have to look at similar decision. OTOH, I think it makes sense to have two cameras. The SH 617 is only about 3 lbs and let you shoot longer than 150mm. Some of my favorite 617 are from my 210mm and even 300mm lens.

For my use, I want the reasonably priced lightest weight camera and the Chamonix F1 seems perfect. The new asymmetrical tilt should make Scheimpflug a piece of cake (ha ha).

[kgm]

There another camera designed for 6x17 use, but it's very, very expensive. Ebony makes a non-folding view camera that comes with a Horseman 617 back. It has 65-365mm of extension (I think those numbers are right. They're at least close). According to Ebony, the Horseman back is the only one the camera will take. Badger Graphic Sales here in Wisconsin imports from Ebony for the U.S.- I know that there are some importers in Great Britain as well, and I'm sure in other parts of Europe. The bad news is that the mahogany model lists for $8,900 (again, with the Horseman 617 back). The Ebony site also shows an ebony model, but Badger Graphics doesn't show it. It would likely cost more. Ebony's cameras are beautifully designed and built. Their non-folding designs allow for greater movements on the front standard and easy set up. I was concerned about how well protected a non-folding camera would be in a pack (I have an Ebony 45SU), but with the front and back plates in place and the standards withdrawn (unextended), it's really pretty well protected.

I like panoramic formats, as well, but I really want view camera movements for most of my photography. The Ebony seems like the ideal solution to me, but the cost is prohibitive. I didn't get the impression that you had an unlimited budget either, but I thought that I'd at least point out that this camera exists. And why should I be the only one who lusts for things I can't have?

[richardman]

kgm, the Shenhao 617 is a view camera with 617 "native" back. Check it out if you are interested. There are a few threads on the LFF as well. The upshot is that it's a fine camera for what it does.

[igore]

Thank Richards for pointing me to Ebony. Site says: "Accepts Linhof-type lensboards and Horseman 617 roll film holders (only)". But still price wise is way over my budget. I was hoping to not spend more then 1500, considering I already have the lenses, it is a resonalbe number, I hope.

Thing is I would like to buy 4x5 with aditional 617 back, not just a 617 camera, unless I can attach 4x5 back to a 617 camera, but that I have never heard or seen. There is a few 4x5 cameras listed on eB??, but which one will also be good for 617. If I was just after 4x5, my life would be much easier, adding 617 option and I am lost.

I am pretty sure, someone out there is using 617 on 4x5 camera. What is you opinion.

[richardman]

Igore, kgm had some slightly incorrect info. Please read carefully:

- There ARE "inexpensive" view camera with 617 back. The Shenhao 617 is one. It has all the movements, the same as any view camera for that price (~$1500-$1600). You can use lens from ~80mm-320mm.

- You can also buy a 5x7 and get 617 back. The weight is much heavier of course.

- You can use a 4x5 camera, but then the 617 back has a back bellow extension. The lens choice is limited up to 150mm.

[igore]

Option 3 is what I would like. Despite the fact that I can only go as far as 150mm, is that the only downside to it. I can live with that.

In that case is Wista DX 4x5, Wista SP, Maybe Ebony RW 45 Ti, good choice. They are now listed on eBXX. So one of those cameras and I would need on top of that DaYi or similar 617 camera back. Does DaYi camera back fit to all of those cameras or are there any differences that I need to know.

[Joseph Dickerson]

Igore,

I just checked my Sinar F1 with the Shen Hao Art Panorama 6x17 back and with my 180mm Caltar there is just the slightest hint of vignetting at the extreme ends of the frame. With my 210 Sironar S the vignetting is much more noticeable. I think it's still useable, maybe 6x14cm or so of image width. At least a bit bigger than a 6x12cm back.

On the wide angle end I can use my 90mm but only with a recessed board due to the offset of the ground glass. No room for movements on the Sinar though, a Shen Hao or Chamonix camera might be better. No way will my 75mm focus so for my camera and lens combination the useful range is 90-180mm with 210 useable in a pinch. Definitely worth it in my opinion.

JD

[kgm]

The Shen Hao 617 does look like a great value. It looks like it would be less than half the price of the Ebony 617 after buying a Horseman roll film holder. Horseman also makes 6x17 cameras with some rise and fall, but not the full movements of a view camera. And they are also much more expensive than the Shen Hao.

[richardman]

Last I checked, an Ebony 617 is over $9000!!!! The Shenhao is $1600 :-)