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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f030f047_b.jpgKodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr
Jason Lane led me to this, he uses it to coat his dry plates. I made a couple for myself, I have gone as long as twenty five minutes at five feet away, never fogged any Fuji HRU XRAY. It's the red 3 watt Red LED from Lowes, with a 1A Kodak Red Glass Filter. So, red light, through another red filter. I call it the "double-safe" light.
NO WAY THIS WILL FOG MY HRU XRAY
With this I can see well enough to inspect shadow detail while developing, no prob
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I had 8 to develop so I used the yankee tank (hyper development artifacts on top and bottom) and d76 1:3 8 minutes with agitation every 30 seconds. Rated at iso 50. I guessed reciprocity failure of ^1.3 but I think they’re underexposed anyway.
Im getting a lot of fine white line artifacts and I think something is being “drawn” on the negative at some point, possibly from going in and out of the holders. I haven’t seen this before on pan film so im stumped.
But I think switching to hru was very good in regards to limiting halation and increasing sharpness.
Attachment 232192
Attachment 232193
And a crop from the above shot: Attachment 232194
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter De Smidt
Nice, Daniel.
Thanks Peter
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67d711f3_b.jpgHRU Pulso Test 210 Componon f22 12 pops MicX by Nokton48, on Flickr
Testing my new Broncolor Pulso C171 375 WS Monolight with restored 80x80cm Pulso Softbox about three feet right. Silver Gold reflector on left. Fuji HRU XRay film 4x5 Sinar Norma 210mm chrome Componon Norma Shutter Mic-X replenished straight developed in a flat bottomed Cesco tray. Lisco 4x5 film holder. F22 I popped the strobe twelve times to build up the density. The Grey canvas background I painted myself; Just recently put it back up. The lens on Maki is a Fuji GX680 180mm F3.2, transplanted the cells into a Fuji WS 210 Seiko Shutter. Lens is clinically sharp; I have a portrait friend that says the lens is too sharp. So he hates it LOL
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I process in Cesco flat 8x10 trays, XRAY clips keep the film from touching the bottom getting marks. Also the clips keep the sheets from bumping into each other, especially in the turbulent wash tray.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...523e2a72_b.jpgHRU Fixing Step Dental Clips 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr
This is the only way I have found I can get absolutely clean negatives without any scratches or abrasions. I want clean perfect negatives and this is what I have to do to get it with this stuff. If you look at it wrong it will scratch LOL ; I'm not kidding. Also I shoot dupes so success assured.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Well it's been a fun week. I found a leedal tank on craigslist and a kodak model d with gbx-2 filter safelight locally on ebay. The safelight makes a world of difference in the cutdown process and in general. I'm going to get an OC filter for printing. I really like the the hangers and dip tank too. No scratches. But I am getting these black dots (mottling?) I'm doing d76 1:4 for 9.5 minutes at 20c. Any thoughts to why?
Attachment 232337
Attachment 232338
Attachment 232339
And one I thought just looks nice
Attachment 232340
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Some quick tests using my 4x5 pinhole.
AGFA Curix Ortho exp 2005 @ EI 64 developed 7mins, Kalogen 1:100 using a MOD 54/Patterson tank.
The films came out fogged but scanable though I'm unsure whether it's age, unsafe safelight or that my blackout hasn't completely blacked out the newly erected street lights facing where I cut the film. The writing on the second has me stumped.
I'm relocating to the laundry (no windows) and have adapted Daniel's/Jason Lane's idea of utilising a 3w red LED bulb filtered through a red lighting gel equivalent to a GBX filter. Hopefully I'll have some answers.
Attachment 232377
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Attachment 232380
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Negatives from above.
Attachment 232381
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rubud
Some quick tests using my 4x5 pinhole.
AGFA Curix Ortho exp 2005 @ EI 64 developed 7mins, Kalogen 1:100 using a MOD 54/Patterson tank.
The films came out fogged but scanable though I'm unsure whether it's age, unsafe safelight or that my blackout hasn't completely blacked out the newly erected street lights facing where I cut the film. The writing on the second has me stumped.
I'm relocating to the laundry (no windows) and have adapted Daniel's/Jason Lane's idea of utilising a 3w red LED bulb filtered through a red lighting gel equivalent to a GBX filter. Hopefully I'll have some answers.
Attachment 232377
Attachment 232378
Attachment 232379
Attachment 232380
Old badly stored Film?? Try processing a sheet no exposure; should be clear as scotch tape if the film is good; sometimes damage can add to an image. Depends
Yep that safelight looks mighty mighty deep red, just like mine. You can lay pennies on the film periodically, to test it's tolerance exposure to the safelight. Also it's bright enough to see film shadow detail as it is developing. Developing by inspection, I lift a sheet up to examine it by safelight
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daniel Unkefer
Old badly stored Film?? Try processing a sheet no exposure; should be clear as scotch tape if the film is good; sometimes damage can add to an image. Depends
Yep that safelight looks mighty mighty deep red, just like mine. You can lay pennies on the film periodically, to test it's tolerance exposure to the safelight. Also it's bright enough to see film shadow detail as it is developing. Developing by inspection, I lift a sheet up to examine it by safelight
Thanks very much for your suggestions (and for sharing your safelight idea). My first inclination is that the film is old (there was one batch where the emulsion peeled off as soon as it got wet). The chap who gave it to me did say that it had been sitting around the storage area for some time. Once I've got the laundry completely light tight I'll cut a sheet in darkness for the tank and then do some safelight tests. If the worst case turns out to be age related I'll be content and will work around it as I do with other expired film.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
It looks as if my earlier issues are more the result of unsafe lighting than old film. In my new environment (Laundry) & safelight setup, I cut a sheet in total darkness, loaded one into my Patterson tank and did a safelight test strip on another in 2min increments for 10 mins, loading the tank in total darkness. Developed in Kalogen 1:100 7mins. I can't see any discernible difference between the blanks which are both a giant improvement on my previous efforts (I was using my computer monitor as a lightbox so the left may look a little darker from the angle I photographed).
Attachment 232417
Attachment 232419 (Scanned using an Epson V850)
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Pulled out the 5x7 and some Carestream x-ray film to practice and check exposure with my hot lights. Next week there is a "Roaring 20's" themed event I am attending and I'm going to do some fun portraits of attendees dressed in period style using the Eastman View #2 and Verito 8 3/4." In fact I just checked and according to an online database the Verito was made in 1924, and the Eastman produced through the mid 20's, so very period correct, other than the film! :)
The test image, of my wife, wide-open and at 1/10:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...v22-meg-2s.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Nice. I am discovering 5x7 myself.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b6460973_b.jpgSONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr
This is the Fiskar Cutter Jim Galli directed me to. Bought cheaply on Ebay, got four new 45mm blades at the local fabric store. Great cutter! I see why he likes it! Here is my cutting setup, set up for cutting 18x24cm sheets from the huge roll of 24cm Agfa Aviphot. Same emulsion as Rollei 400s, basically. Identical if not the same. Has some slight Infared effect that is very pleasing. I've been shooting this film as Rollei 400s in fresh 70mm, and I like it. Between the Mammo Film, Agfa Aviphot, and Fuji HRU I am all set for cheapo 8x10 size shoots. Something I can do in winter times. I have eight 18x24cm original olde wooden Sinar Film Holders that are perfect for shooting this stuff. If I contact print on 8x10 paper, it makes a nice wide black border that I like.
Of course I have to spin the plastic cylinder of film so it is oriented for easy cutting. I will set up some wooden stops to hold the biggie roll so it doesn't slide around in the dark. That's about it for now
The Fiskar's blade goes into 45 pivot mode so no way to scratch the film. Good design
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I had an issue I posted about a few days ago- black dots on the photos. I eliminated everything and it ended up being the film, probably due to poor storage. I did allow it to get to 80F and could have been too humid.
I’m now trying agfa cp-gu m from cxs. I tried some overcast shots today and it appears to be iso 25 (with d76 1:6 9.5min with hangers)
Here’s a shot from yesterday. Attachment 232608
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I also would like to share that I’m using a rotatrim m24 to cut down 8x10s to 4x5. I have two paper safes. One I fill with the sheets I’ll cut. I start by setting the cutter to 125mm and cut down the half sheets, store them in the other paper safe. Once that’s complete, I turn the lights on, adjust the cutter to 110mm, then go back and cut the rest of the film to size and put in a 4x5 box. I recently got a kodak model d safelight which came with the GBX2 filter. I found it had a 75w(!) bulb but it still doesn’t fog.
Edit: I need to run fog tests.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I've been using a Carl A3 rotary trimmer using magnets as a guide for cutting down paper & film. One magnet is at 4in in the top and another at 5in on the bottom. It's an idea I stumbled on recently but it seems to work.
Attachment 232676
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Very good idea!
I have a roll of magnet tape, I use for ULF
I keep 2 cutters for film cut usage only, in a dust free metal drawer
Thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rubud
I've been using a Carl A3 rotary trimmer using magnets as a guide for cutting down paper & film. One magnet is at 4in in the top and another at 5in on the bottom. It's an idea I stumbled on recently but it seems to work.
Attachment 232676
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
Pulled out the 5x7 and some Carestream x-ray film to practice and check exposure with my hot lights. Next week there is a "Roaring 20's" themed event I am attending and I'm going to do some fun portraits of attendees dressed in period style using the Eastman View #2 and Verito 8 3/4."
And...some results! Well, I cheated though. I recently purchased a 200mm and 250mm Imagon set and I put the 200mm in a Copal 3 shutter I have here collecting dust. Works on the 5x7 and soft focus is nice, but noticeably wider than the Verito, which I needed for group shots. I should've switch to the Verito for this image, but my friend wanted to take a photo of my wife and I dressed up for the occasion, so I just used what was on the camera at the time as I had only about a minute to set this up and show her how to trigger the shutter.
Cropped square though - 5x7 Eastman #2, 200mm Imagon, on Carestream x-ray film:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...asy-0986ss.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
And, a group shot, same 200mm Imagon. Interesting how the light from the background window (which late in the day had become much brighter) wrapped around the foreground faces. I didn't mention this, but I had one hot-light for illumination on these.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...easy-0988s.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Interesting and Brave
The pearls seem too normal
I also think you should try ULF X-Ray
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
200 sheets of 14x17 are waiting for me to use them...
Not enough time in the day!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Speaking of x-ray...I've tried on and off for a while to make positives using x-ray materials. Never quite worked right, but recently I had a brainstorm on what I was failing at doing before, so gave it another go:
Attachment 232823
Decent success! That is just a cell pic sitting on my light table. And this 5x7 film is of an unknown age and slightly fogged from what I can tell, so the blacks would be deeper if using fresh. I've always wanted to do simple positives for art shows - something so simple and cheap that I could demonstrate it easily, so this may evolve into that. Either way, it's a fun experiment that may prove useful later.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
I had a brainstorm on what I was failing at doing before
The suspense is killing me!! Are you going to tell what key was? :o
I like that image. I see no blue tint..was this a clear base or did you digitally edit out the blue? I tried some positives (mostly for use as interpositives, really) on xray and it worked decently well, but evidently with a distinctly blue hue to them.
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Re: X-ray Film example and comparison.
Jim...
This is GREAT Information.
Thank you.
;-))
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Jim...
This is GREAT Information. On All of your Vids
Thank you.
;-))
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I'm still trying to figure out who Jim is...:D
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rubud
Thanks very much for your suggestions (and for sharing your safelight idea). My first inclination is that the film is old (there was one batch where the emulsion peeled off as soon as it got wet). The chap who gave it to me did say that it had been sitting around the storage area for some time. Once I've got the laundry completely light tight I'll cut a sheet in darkness for the tank and then do some safelight tests. If the worst case turns out to be age related I'll be content and will work around it as I do with other expired film.
How old is old when it comes top X-ray or ortho film?
I've been using one or the other since I began LF photography about 1938. Much of the film I have used has been more than old, it's been ancient, 20+ years in some cases. When treated correctly, I've never had age fog on these films. I have had fog from incorrect safelights, and tiny light leaks or glowing paint or tape in the darkroom. Don't be careless with it. Treat it right and and it'll treat you right.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
And...some results! Well, I cheated though. I recently purchased a 200mm and 250mm Imagon set and I put the 200mm in a Copal 3 shutter I have here collecting dust. Works on the 5x7 and soft focus is nice, but noticeably wider than the Verito, which I needed for group shots. I should've switch to the Verito for this image, but my friend wanted to take a photo of my wife and I dressed up for the occasion, so I just used what was on the camera at the time as I had only about a minute to set this up and show her how to trigger the shutter.
Cropped square though - 5x7 Eastman #2, 200mm Imagon, on Carestream x-ray film:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...asy-0986ss.jpg
Which softening adapter did you use for this?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Jim, it's an Imagon 200mm, no strainer disk, wide-open.
koraks, I missed your earlier message. I used a thiourea toner for reversal. This overcomes the blue base and leaves it slightly warm.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Very interesting
Process needed
Photographers' Formulary Thiourea cautions and usage well studied
They write of paper conditioning, your 'Blue Be Gone' is needed as my Blue Hair is annoying many
I also realize we are now in a new era of experimenters
Many without applied science education
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
Jim, it's an Imagon 200mm, no strainer disk, wide-open.
koraks, I missed your earlier message. I used a thiourea toner for reversal. This overcomes the blue base and leaves it slightly warm.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Hi!! my english is not very good, sorry
I've been using Rx film for a long time to work, I'll show you the latest, thanks
Bausch & Lomb Zeiss Tessar f4.5 - 300mm
Negativo 4x5 - Agfa Rx
Lights: Electronic flash
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/2NWNep.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luiscoll
Nice! I like the tonal values on the face.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Recent video using 14x17 XRAY & Gum Over Kallitype print...
https://youtu.be/mbzHbOwRHZs
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron McElroy
Nice! I like the tonal values on the face.
Thanks!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
A Reformulation of the "Ansco-30" X-Ray Developer =
Attachment 233569
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Wonderful video and the 14X17 print IS COLOR I like
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Missed this
Good work
Quote:
Originally Posted by
James R. Kyle
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Congratulations on your perseverance.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Best wishes to all for the year.
Still coming to grips with my camera and film but what I would consider my first success (even if mundane :) ).
Agfa Ortho HT-G (exp 2005) EI 80, Crown Graphic, Ektar 127, 1/25s @ f/16, bright overcast mid afternoon. Dev'd Kalogen 1:100 8m patterson tank + Mod 54, 30s initial, 10s each minute. Epson V850 scan on glass, no adjustments.
Attachment 235254
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Wonderfull!
The dog needs a camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rubud
Best wishes to all for the year.
Still coming to grips with my camera and film but what I would consider my first success (even if mundane :) ).
Agfa Ortho HT-G (exp 2005) EI 80, Crown Graphic, Ektar 127, 1/25s @ f/16, bright overcast mid afternoon. Dev'd Kalogen 1:100 8m patterson tank + Mod 54, 30s initial, 10s each minute. Epson V850 scan on glass, no adjustments.
Attachment 235254
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tin Can
Wonderfull!
The dog needs a camera
Thanks.
That's Ruby (part of my user name is based on her - Buddy, our deceased border collie, being the other part). In most circumstances she runs from cameras - especially when seen in my hand.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I have been using Carestream (formally Kodak) Industrex film and chemistry for Industrial Radiography for over 20 years. The film and chemistry has improved over the years.
Industrex film is blue sensitive, double immulsion (T-Grain technology), and notched for film type identification. Redlight safe. Sizes most commonly used by me are 70mm roll film, 4.5"x17" sheet, and 14"x17" sheet.
For radiography, the film is loaded between lead intensifying screens in lightproof, flexible, cloth cassettes. Film can be cut to other sizes if needed.
After exposure, the film is loaded onto film hangers with clips (the clips put a pinhole on 2-4 corners of the film). The hanger can hold 3 sheets of 4.5", 4 strips of 70mm, or a single 14"x17".
Processing is done in a series of tanks of Industrex Manual Developer for 4 minutes at 68°F to 76°F. Continuous agitation for first 30 seconds, then for 5 seconds every 30 seconds. Indicator Stop Bath (changes color when spent), agitation for 30 seconds. Manual Fixer for 3 minutes, same agitation as Developer. Water wash for 10 minutes. Photo-Flo, agitation for 30 seconds. Dried in a film drier for 10-15 minutes.
We flash ID onto each film prior to loading onto the hanger. Multiple films may also be stapled together to make 17" lengths, if cut to shorter sizes.
Chemistry life... we can process at least 325- 14"x17" sheets in a period of 30 days without a loss in quality/repeatability. Chemistry would require a 25% in volume of Replenishment in that period. Water wash is replaced daily. All chemistry gets replaced after 3-4 months regardless of use.
Tips for minimizing film scratches... wipe down work surfaces prior to handling the film. Fresh cut film is more likely to scratch other film so it's best to load cut film directly into film holders or hangers. The hangers we use are asymmetrical. So, the clips are flush to one side and protrude on the other. They can interlock this way. Using the flush side back to back is safest. The next best option is interlocking. The worst is two protruding clips face to face and most likely to catch clips or scratch film. If the plan is to sight develop, reduce the quantity of hangers in the tank by half.
Red Safelights... we use incandescent bulbs in bullet housings behind Kodak GBX-2 deep red filters. Never had film fogging issues. 40W at 28" above the film handling counter. 25W at 28" above the Stop tank and 48" to the handling counter. 15W at 28" above the Photo-Flo tank and about 28" from Fixer tank.
Performing a Safelight test... unload a 17" strip of film in complete darkness. Place the strip of film under something that will mask its entire length in your working area. Turn on your safelights. Expose the film 1 inch at a time at 1 minute intervals for 16 minutes. Save the last inch as your base fog reference and develop normal time. This will give your safe working time. Our fastest film, AA400, does not fog at 16 minutes with this setup.
MX125 is our slowest film. Ultra fine grain, and very high contrast. Produces very crisp radiographs.
T200 is our mid speed film. Very fine grain, high contrast. Most used film type.
AA400 is our fastest film. Fine grain, high contrast. Our "grainest" film.
I am only some 200 pages into this thread and have done some searches through it too. I noticed not many are using industrial xray film and none using the chemistry. These are the products and the workflow that I will be using in my journey into xray photography. I hope that I provided some insight into my world.
Attachment 235417
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Interesting. I'm certainly going to look into Industrex as I've been a long time Carestream user.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I have some Industrix bought without advise
The 5X7 is rare for us, but the huge amount if waste protective packaging turned me off
I also found these NOS which will be handy for 3.5 X 17" when I decide to make a camera to fit
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f219423f_c.jpgHanger by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
The medical X-Ray most use is very efficiently packaged
100 films are side by side without interleaving paper per box
I bought cases of 500 sheets very economically
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tin Can
The medical X-Ray most use is very efficiently packaged
100 films are side by side without interleaving paper per box
I bought cases of 500 sheets very economically
Industrex is available with or without the interleaving. We purchase 100 sheets without.