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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Some of us tried Ziplock bags when somebody else suggested it. It works, one at a time.
Randy if you already have deep tanks and hangers gas burst can be DIY.
I do use stuff made by somebody else.
But I will be trying some other ideas. All you need to try Gas Burst is a Poly tube with tiny holes, attach a timing valve and any adjustable 10+ psi air supply. Maybe a full tire...I use my shop air compressor.
It takes a while to tune it, but once it's set, it runs and runs.
I burst for 1 second 10 PSI every 10 seconds for 10 minutes usually. Water rise should be 1/2 to 1". I go low. You don't need N2 for one shot developer or any fixer.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Thodoris I'm glad you have managed to get the tubes to work, I tried with the old cibachrome tubes but with little success, the film is too flexible to stay in place and I would always find the two negs stuck together. Tray developing of 4x5 would produce mottled skies. I had success with the mod54, but at first had the same problem, the xray film was too flexible and they would flex out of the holders and I would find them stuck to the side of the tube. I drilled holes in the ends and applied a bit of silicone to form a nipple, that way they could not flex out and escape from the mod 54, works a treat now.
As for 8x10 I have not had probs in tray at all, only downside is you can only do one at a time. with tray I just use a circular motion making sure the film hits against each side of the tray for a couple of laps then flip, but still use the same dilute developer of about 1:150
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Andrew, are you using flat bottom trays or glass in the bottom? And are you saying you just rock the tray from each side, then flip the film over?
Randy - I tried the Ziploc bag as well - so long ago I can't remember my results. I am guessing I did not like it.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Randy I use the old flat bottom ceramic trays. I rock the film into the end of the tray then the side then the bottom and the other side, circular. Do that a couple of times then flip. You can't really tell which side is which, as one always seems to develop out faster, continual flipping helps discern which side is which.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
For the little I have developed 2 sided Xray film so far, I used what I had on hand, big Cesco-Lite flat bottom plastic trays left over from a print shop and Beutler's developer. And then made sure I didn't have fingernails that needed clipping. I rocked and agitated and flipped the film continuously (Fuji green sensitive 8x10). Being deft of hand with reasonable gentleness, scratching problems were quite minimal. Certainly nothing to inspire me to try all kinds of other ideas. The best other idea I know of is paying up for the one-sided stuff, which kind of defeats the whole thrill of "cheap". Cheap film I can shoot away with and not try to be an artiste, which I'm not. If I come up with a good picture once in a while, it wasn't because I was so talented and sure that I could buy the expensive pan stuff.. I can't see why any other smooth flat-bottom tray won't work just as well.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quite right! I have some old pyrex dishes that work just as well or some stainless steel warming trays from a bain-marie. I'm sure I read somewhere that if you are getting bad development, get some food dye and put a couple of drops in your dish with water and check the dye to see if the water is agitating enough.
Funny, I cant get the same even development with 4x5 in trays.
This scanned negative is a section of an 8x10 taken on a 3d camera, the positive then has the lenticular plastic screen laminated to it. Havent got a laminator and the adhesive film is quite expensive. The camera works fine since packing, the newspaper used to pack is dated 1988.
Attachment 177030
Agfa green 8x10 developed by flat bottomed tray rodinol 1:135-ish
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Anyone pick up a cheap x-ray film developing machine to use for in-camera use of x-ray film?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I have try it at work. It make many micro lines and micro scratches. Negative looks fine for science or medicine but not good for photography.. I guess
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeKlari
I have try it at work. It make many micro lines and micro scratches. Negative looks fine for science or medicine but not good for photography.. I guess
Good to know. Thanks!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy
It does help - thanks. I will look into the 3" tubes. If you get a chance, perhaps post a picture of your tube assembly some time - or if there is one already posted somewhere, can you direct me to it. Thanks.
Randy (and anyone else who might be interested),
Finally took some pictures of the PVC tubes that I mentioned testing.
Top pic from left to right:
18x24cm/8x10" tube (takes one film).
13x18cm/5x7" tube (takes two films).
End cap assembly, glued to a coupling.
Coupling by itself.
Screw cap with its base.
Bottom pics from left to right, looking through:
18x24cm/8x10" tube
13x18cm/5x7" tube (with the "stopper" of the coupling protruding, which helps the two negs stay away from each other)
Coupling
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/873/2...3623aef9_b.jpg
Now, since my last post I developed 10 more sheets of 18x24cm film.
Half of them single-sided mammography film, and half double sided.
8 came out ok.
1 refused to come out for washing (even though after fixing I place the tubes vertically in the sink and fill them with water to reduce friction), resulting in two massive scratches on the back side.
1 came out with streaks of uneven development (no idea why).
Also, I don't have a motorized roller base (had plans of building one if/when I concluded that this developing method works for me), and I can tell you that manually rotating the tubes for 16min for each sheet gets old real fast.
In conclusion, this method might be worth looking into, only if you have a motorized roller base, *and* you shoot a relatively small amount of film.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Scan from a contact print on Ilford MG warmtone paper at grade 1.
More often than not, I make two identical exposures of any scene I deem worthy, so that I get a second chance if processing goes wrong on the first negative.
In this case, the first one came out ok (way back when), so the duplicate was kept aside to be used for testing.
The negative that made this print was developed last week, more than two years after exposure, which speaks volumes for the stability of the latent image on exposed xray films (or at the very least on this particular film, Agfa CPG+).
18x24cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), developed in Ilford MG paper developer (1+50) in a Jobo 2830 drum for 8'min.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/924/4...00b07c51_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I had a similar experience with Kodak High Speed Green X-ray film. In 2012 I made four exposures of a scene and developed three of them over the next few days. The fourth sheet stayed in my paper safe for two years before being processed in 2014. The image looked identical the best of the three processed two years earlier. This is significant, because X-ray film is almost always processed immediately after exposure in a professional setting, so the manufacturers don't have any reason to strive for long term latent image quality. I'm guessing latent image preservation goes along with other desirable characteristics that good X-ray film needs to have.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Thodoris, thankyou for sharing your experiences with your tubes, much the same experiences I had with tubes, but you had much better results. Speaking of the electric rollers, I had one, using a mod54 in a Paterson dev tank (3 spool version). The only problem with the electric roller I found was that as the developer is only turning one way I was still getting uneven development, so I got out my spare electric roller to use in the opposite direction. I changed rollers every minute or so and got really good results
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Well, sharing our experiences and inspiring each other is what it's all about, right?
Here is a scan from a contact print on Hahnemühle Platinum Rag coated with Mike Ware's Cyanotype formula.
Using the same in-camera negative from which I printed the silver gelatin contact print in my previous post.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/828/4...005220d3_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Thanks for posting both prints.
I am wavering on Cyanotype
Which do you prefer?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Randy,
Even though I do like how the cyanotype turned out (also did a darker version, but I like this one better), I'm not the biggest fan of this process in general.
Despite all my experience in silver printing, my only previous experience in "alternative processes" are a handful of prints I did some 20 years ago in a workshop. Still a total newbie, taking my first steps in climbing the proverbial learning curve.
(Having a working knowledge of sensitometry helps immensely though.)
So, before trying out something more challenging, like palladium or carbon transfer, I thought it would be best to try a simpler (and cheaper) process first.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Miguel Coquis
30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.
Nice!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thodoris Tzalavras
Randy,
Even though I do like how the cyanotype turned out (also did a darker version, but I like this one better), I'm not the biggest fan of this process in general.
Despite all my experience in silver printing, my only previous experience in "alternative processes" are a handful of prints I did some 20 years ago in a workshop. Still a total newbie, taking my first steps in climbing the proverbial learning curve.
(Having a working knowledge of sensitometry helps immensely though.)
So, before trying out something more challenging, like palladium or carbon transfer, I thought it would be best to try a simpler (and cheaper) process first.
Very good idea that I should follow!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Maybe try Van Dyke! I made some from x-ray film years ago. I personally am not a fan of the color of cyanotypes generally. I've seen some toned cyanotypes that were okay though, but never experimented with that myself.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?
I have read Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from Photograghers Formulary.
I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.
I ordered some today.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon.oman
Nice!
:)
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Miguel Coquis
30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.
Miguel, beautiful! I see the x-ray film is working very well for you.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?
I have read
Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from
Photograghers Formulary.
I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.
I ordered some today.
It's the only devloper I've used, apart from a failed experiment with Rodinal. See Mercury Photo Bureau for examples.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seezee
It's the
only devloper I've used, apart from a failed experiment with Rodinal. See
Mercury Photo Bureau for examples.
Rodinal is all I have used on any film for 7 years. I am anxious to try Pyrocat HD.
Very interesting X-Ray project and website, I put it on a slow scroll and love the flutist placement. Saw a couple a couple times. I think...
Do you print the musician portraits?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?
Yes, usually 1+150. Works like a charm.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
All I have seen are round corners. Buy larger and cut it down. I cut to all smaller sizes, even down to Hasselblad.
One advantage to RC is no sharp edges scratching other negs if shuffling.
Save scraps for fixer checking.
The other advantage is that you can use the corner to remind you which way was facing the lens if you're using film with emulsion on both sides. I always load mine with the rounded corner placed where the notch codes would normally go.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Rodinal is all I have used on any film for 7 years. I am anxious to try Pyrocat HD.
Very interesting X-Ray project and website, I put it on a slow scroll and love the flutist placement. Saw a couple a couple times. I think...
Do you print the musician portraits?
Thank you. I am still setting up my darkroom so I haven't made any prints yet. Depending on whether I get any good at it is going to make a big difference when I start grant writing to finance the show — paying someone else to print increases the cost by an order of magnitude!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
koraks
Yes, usually 1+150. Works like a charm.
I dilute 1:200, but that's for semi-stand development in a daylight tank (HP Combi+). YMMV.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Anybody using Pyrocat HD.
Been there , had horrible results , went back to r09.
I honestly think there is no magic developer, magic processing temp or time .
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
ro9 is all I have used for 7 years.
The PHD just arrived. Now I have to try it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SergeiR
Been there , had horrible results , went back to r09.
I honestly think there is no magic developer, magic processing temp or time .
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
For this year's Pinhole Day, I converted my Kodak Master View 8x10 to a pinhole!
---
Kodak Master 8x10 camera, fitted with a 0.46mm pinhole, at 120mm focal length.
30"sec exposure on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in Ilford MG 1+50 for 8'min in a glass plated tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/909/4...c7dce86d_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thodoris Tzalavras
For this year's Pinhole Day, I converted my Kodak Master View 8x10 to a pinhole!
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Kodak Master 8x10 camera, fitted with a 0.46mm pinhole, at 120mm focal length.
30"sec exposure on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in Ilford MG 1+50 for 8'min in a glass plated tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/909/4...c7dce86d_b.jpg
Great pinhole image!
I've participated in Pinhole Day in the past. No time this year!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?
I have read
Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from
Photograghers Formulary.
I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.
I ordered some today.
I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.
Thanks, Andrew, that is my interest.
And a stack of Azo 8X10.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.
Andrew, interesting. 10ml of A&B. How long is your developing time for a carbon negative?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SergeiR
Nice!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Sergei, it seems you have extended your R09 times?
Looks very good.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
Sergei, it seems you have extended your R09 times?
Looks very good.
Just been lazy and 15 was ready on display of watch :)
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SergeiR
Wowzer!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Seezee, that's one of the best I've seen on x-ray. I'm going back to give it a try again.
What rating did you shoot it at?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Kodak Master View 8x10 with a Fujinon W 250mm on a rather windy day by the beach.
Agfa CPG+ xray film, developed in Ilford MG paper developer (1+50) for 8'min.
Scan from a contact print on Ilford MGWT paper at grade 3.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/865/4...e3975727_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nukatpiat
Seezee, that's one of the best I've seen on x-ray. I'm going back to give it a try again.
What rating did you shoot it at?
Are you speaking of the OKIE-X project that I linked to? Those were shot with 2 lights and a reflector. I used the same settings listed for these 2 portraits. The key light is set to -5.2f & the background light is set to -4.2f. Pneumatic shutter only fires at ~1⁄25 second. I rate the film at about ISO 25 under the 5600K lights.
Glad to see you're going to try again!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Could the experienced folk here chime in on my attempt to misuse an x-ray film processor to allow me to use x-ray http://www.largeformatphotography.in...000A-Processor
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
ZZ Medical has a 5% discount on everything (including x-ray film) thru 29 May. The code is
Cheers!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy Moe
ro9 is all I have used for 7 years.
The PHD just arrived. Now I have to try it!
Have you tried the PHD?? Whats your opinion on it??
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrewch59
Have you tried the PHD?? Whats your opinion on it??
Not yet.
Life keeps getting in the way of photography.
Right now my excuse is unbalanced vision from ongoing surgery.
Soon. I hope.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
1"sec exposure at f16 on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in 1+50 Ilford MG paper developer for 8.5'min in a glass plated 10x12" tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/901/2...34735d80_b.jpg