Thats about what I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
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Thats about what I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Yes, one sheet at a time in flat-bottomed trays. Constant gentle agitation, north/south east/west for the first 30 seconds, then 5 seconds every 2 minutes.
Don't blame hangers. Studios and labs have developed millions, maybe billions, of sheets of film in hangers with no problem at all. I can't even begin to imagine how many sheets of film I developed in hangers in the 60s, weddings, graduation pix, all sorts of things, with perfect results. Like anything else, if you don't try to learn how to do it, you won't learn how to do it. It's ridiculous to blame tools for your own shortcomings. Bah, humbug.
Michael, no tips, suggestions? I processed thousands of sheets of 4x5 Tri-X in 4 sheet hangers in 3.5 gal tanks during the 80's when I was an Air Force photographer. I managed to do it with even development and minimal surge marks. But now I am using 8x10 Xray film and 2 ltr tanks. When I attempt the exact method of agitation I used many years ago, I get uneven development and obvious surge marks. Me thinks there is a difference, I just don't know what...yet. Will continue experimenting.
As Randy Moe said, very gentle, shallow agitation. At the Chicago meeting we discussed how easy it is to over agitate--for instance, 35mm in cans I give one flip and two short twists, once a minute for long developing times, or twice a minute for short ones. I've seen people agitate roll film as if they were making cocktails! Bad!
For 8x10 hangers, I lift each corner about an inch, then slide the hangers back and forth once or twice, in line with the film. That's all. I wondered why this worked, then when I got a little red LED for developing by inspection and could see the image against developer time, I understood it. If you want to agitate more, do this same routine more often, don't do a more vigorous routine.
The main difference I see between regular film and xray is that if I'm too aggressive with xray, the film likes to pop out of the hangers--that's a problem I didn't used to have with regular film, even film packs, which were very thin. Bending the upper lip of the top hanger channel down just a little bit seems to help. It took me a lot of hanger purchases to figure this one out!
The other factor is to use only Kodak 4a hangers. They really do hold the film in a better way. I was having edge problems with other brands. The difference that I see is that the u-channels in other brands are parallel-sided. The channel of the Kodak 4a is V shaped with a little flat on the bottom, so that the channel doesn't touch the sides of the film. With the others, I think film was sticking to the channel irregularly, which not only had a direct effect, but also disturbed the developer flow. Plus, if you want (I don't) you can dry the film right in the Kodak hangers.
The other advantage to gentle agitation is that I don't have scratches and gouges anymore. Regular film is harder, I think, but also you only need to worry about one side. The softness of xray film is a real problem. I found when I was agitating harder I was getting scratches. I even got strange tracks vertically from lifting the hangers out of the developer the full height--they were almost like water abrasion marks---yes, I know, that's impossible. Note that I'm talking about the direction that would be 90 degrees from what you'd get from sliding film into holders, so it's not that. They showed on the film when wet as areas that looked like long scratches and repelled water, and then when dry as non-printing but visible markings on the film. All that went away when I calmed down.
Speaking of loading holders, as we weren't, someone, I forget who, sorry, suggested loading holders by pulling the slide all the way out, getting the film as closely as possible to its final spot, dropping only one side under the track first, arcing the film up and tracking the other side, and then you only need to slide the film a couple of mm home, rather than coming in all the way from the end. I can't make this work with 4x5, but it is really great for 5x7 and 8x10, and solves any possibility of scratches from that source.
Thanks a lot Michael. I will give your method of agitation a try. I really want to be able to process with hangers as I want to limit my fingers being in the chems so much. Do you use the same method with 4X5 panchromatic film in hangers?
I'm not one of those tennis players who look at their raquet after missing the ball. I stuck with it and made it work for me. Great way to do stand/semi-stand development. For "normal" development though, I prefer trays. In this case though, the RIGHT tray matters. Flat-bottomed.Quote:
Don't blame hangers. Studios and labs have developed millions, maybe billions, of sheets of film in hangers with no problem at all. I can't even begin to imagine how many sheets of film I developed in hangers in the 60s, weddings, graduation pix, all sorts of things, with perfect results. Like anything else, if you don't try to learn how to do it, you won't learn how to do it. It's ridiculous to blame tools for your own shortcomings. Bah, humbug.
I've been using hangers for all of my 8x10 for years with no problems. 4 at a time. Great for minimal and regular development. Gentile agitation is the key.
In the past I was a bit more frequent than once a minute with pan films because I'm using shorter development times there, but if I ever shoot a piece of pan film ever again, I will try it. Also, I've come to understand that if you can manage it, longer developing times are better for sheet films---that is, like at lower temps, higher dilutions. With roll films I am around 6-7 minutes, but sheet films develop more evenly with twice that, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Here is the semi-stand test I did in hangers with double-sided x-ray. The semi-stand image on the left received constant agitation for a minute, followed by in/out, in/out every 20 minutes, for a total time of 45 minutes. Pyrocat-HD (30ml of solution A and B in 6 litres water). The image on the right was tray developed (flat-bottomed tray) in Pyrocat-HD (10ml of solution A and B in 1 litre water), constant gentle agitation for first 30 seconds (north/south, east/west), followed by one gentle agitation cycle of north/south, east/west every 2 minutes.
The semi-stand image is noticeably sharper.