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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Please don't take this as criticism. The last few portraits and the flowers seem to have no detail in the shadows on my monitor. Could be my monitor. Do you all have detail on the neg? For instance in Voom, which is a very creative shot, Sergei, there is no detail in the hair. Had you given a couple of stops more would you get detail? Would you blow highlights?
Sergei, I think you have gotten the best sharpness out of this xray film. You still find it not as sharp as photo emulsions?
Thanks and congrats on the good work, all.
Mark
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
You can't tell apparent detail/sharpness from these tiny forum images.
I did some experiments recently with unstripped x-ray film. It is clearly softer with both emulsions, if that matters to anyone. A scan of each showed a pretty apparent difference.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark MacKenzie
Please don't take this as criticism. The last few portraits and the flowers seem to have no detail in the shadows on my monitor. Could be my monitor. Do you all have detail on the neg? For instance in Voom, which is a very creative shot, Sergei, there is no detail in the hair. Had you given a couple of stops more would you get detail? Would you blow highlights?
Sergei, I think you have gotten the best sharpness out of this xray film. You still find it not as sharp as photo emulsions?
Thanks and congrats on the good work, all.
Mark
Mark, i do follow Mortensen's school on the shadows - there is no point in having details there, unless something is lit. However - there is enough details there, i just pull that leg on curve a bit, as i prepare it for web. Sharpness wise.. I dont know. Way how i see it - its about as sharp as Arista, at least on scans i am getting. If i close f to 16/22 i have no issues with seeing every hair or every eyelash and bits of blood vessels in eyes.. However it might be a problem for people who need really really sharp bits in shots , like for non-pictorial landscapes & etc.
I will try to show unprocessed crop :)
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
There you go.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8...002a5ae2_c.jpg
c1 by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr
8x10 CDG, Symmar 300mm, no filter, 7m in Rodinal 1+50 (i NEED to try 1+100)
IMHO - fairly sharp, i dont think i ever got anything better with same lens on 8x10 with same scanner.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
8x10 kodak cdg, yellow-green keno (xo) filter. Overcast. Gundlach radar 8x10. Straight scan.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8512/8...6d018ab0_c.jpg
Masha by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark MacKenzie
Please don't take this as criticism. The last few portraits and the flowers seem to have no detail in the shadows on my monitor. Could be my monitor. Do you all have detail on the neg? For instance in Voom, which is a very creative shot, Sergei, there is no detail in the hair. Had you given a couple of stops more would you get detail? Would you blow highlights?
Sergei, I think you have gotten the best sharpness out of this xray film. You still find it not as sharp as photo emulsions?
Thanks and congrats on the good work, all.
Mark
Mark, if you're referring to my portraits, I was going for a high contrast, single light source portrait- look. I'm a fan of the "Meet the Beatles" album cover look, though they are 1/2 moon type look and mine are more of a 3/4 moon look.
I also mentioned that these were test exposures. IMR, IMR +1, IMR +2, and IMR +3 (trying to figure out how much bellows extension I have to factor into exposure.
IMR +3 had crazy detail. I could see detailed reflection in the eyes, which is not very natural when looking into dark Asian eyes. Because of the extra exposure, the lighting becomes very flat and looses the mood I'm looking for in my contact prints. I didn't upload IMR +3.
IMR +2 renders more naturally what I saw with my eyes in the studio. There's enough detail in the shadows and hair. The image is so flat from using Rodinal 1:100, that I had to use a #5 filter to bring any contrast into the image. I uploaded this image here.
IMR +1 got messed up in the developer. I was trying to figure Dektol out. Since I determined that IMR +2 was the best exposure IMR +1 and IMR were already as good as trash to me. I just though "what the heck, let's put in Dektol and see what we get".
IMR gives incredible sharpness in Dektol. It makes the Rodinal look soft. Yes they are 3 stops underexposed, so ther is no detail in the shadows. But I love the looks I get with Dektol 1:2. The times are just so short it's scary. 1-2 min.
I've decided that since I'm going to be making around 100 of these type portraits, I'm going to continue with developer tests. I'll probably ask male and female students today.
Rodinal 1:100 is too flat for this work so I'm going to try Rodinal 1:25 and 1:50.
I've got some XTOL, might as well soup it up too. Might as well try Xtodinal again too.
I can also try Dektol 1:3, 1:4, and 1:5.
And I haven't tried Diafine yet.
That's 8 tests. But we'll worth it to figure out which look I want. Plus now I know, IMR + 3 is too extreme and IMR lacks the shadow detail. I'll just do IMR +2.
By the way, critiques and heavy criticism are welcome! If I didn't want criticism I wouldn't upload my tests here.
Lee
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SergeiR
Someone should upload a test with different filters. I'm curious how they each see. Beautiful portrait again!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Hi Lee and Sergei,
Not trying to be critical; I am wondering about the response of the film. I do like the Meet the Beatles look, good work. Hats off to you both and Corran and all you guys. I have a box of the Fuji HR-T but only developed two sheets so far. I am wondering about Diafine with this film but it has been so grey in Tennessee that the sun hardly comes out. Both of your portraits show great detail. Anyway, thanks to all sharing their findings.
That portrait of Marsha is cool. Love the tree limbs' focus at the top. I assume this is Rodinal also?
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Mark, with any film and with x-ray film I can get the detail I need if I expose and develop it properly. If you are asking can you get all the detail in the print especially in the shadows then I can say speaking only for myself, yes. I have detail in the shadows that you can not see on anything I post on the web. YOu must see the carbon print and hold it in the light and you will understand that with x-ray film one can achieve similar results to traditional film. Now I don't worry about working for a scan because I'm all about the final print.
This is why I like to see posts of the final presentation and not negative scans. However you post it here please complete the story and tell if it is a print please. Thanks.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark MacKenzie
Hi Lee and Sergei,
Not trying to be critical; I am wondering about the response of the film. I do like the Meet the Beatles look, good work. Hats off to you both and Corran and all you guys. I have a box of the Fuji HR-T but only developed two sheets so far. I am wondering about Diafine with this film but it has been so grey in Tennessee that the sun hardly comes out. Both of your portraits show great detail. Anyway, thanks to all sharing their findings.
That portrait of Marsha is cool. Love the tree limbs' focus at the top. I assume this is Rodinal also?
Thanks,
Mark
Please do be critical! I can take a beating!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
photoevangelist
Someone should upload a test with different filters. I'm curious how they each see. Beautiful portrait again!
Thanks. I was to shoot folks at the event today and planned to use different filters to experiment, but being outdoors - whole thing was canned due people being scared of wee bit of chill.. meh.. :( But i remember about request and will try to do it at some point, at least for deep green/orange/light yellow-green and of course without.
(didnt get to experiment on this one, b/c getting my mother in front of camera is whole adventure and then i couldnt really tell her "oh , by the way, let me check it out how all those guys will work on you and post it on web" - she would kill me :))
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark MacKenzie
Hi Lee and Sergei,
Not trying to be critical; I am wondering about the response of the film. I do like the Meet the Beatles look, good work. Hats off to you both and Corran and all you guys. I have a box of the Fuji HR-T but only developed two sheets so far. I am wondering about Diafine with this film but it has been so grey in Tennessee that the sun hardly comes out. Both of your portraits show great detail. Anyway, thanks to all sharing their findings.
That portrait of Marsha is cool. Love the tree limbs' focus at the top. I assume this is Rodinal also?
Thanks,
Mark
Yep... I am simple man and sticking to single developer - Rodinal formula at different dillutions :) Tried to wade away with other ones, but kinda didnt like results all that much with ID11 and others, on other films.. So i am just sticking to one.. (that said i still got unopened pack of HC110 :)).
Oh I dont get all bitchy about critique either, Mark, no worries.. I am always trying to learn things from people, and this forum is great wealth of information . I never been truly trained on whole dark room part of photography - back in days i didnt have much choice for film and developers nor money to experiment. Now that i am coming back after years of shooting and processing in lab or just shooting digital - i do discover new chemicals and whole bunch of tricks that people use, and i am just in awe of people who can actually figure this stuff out :)
This was actually shot on overcast day, so sky here were gray as it gets at 11am-12pm on typical rainy day in texas. So it might be point of reference, kinda.
Btw, what makes me curious is if there is different response in Fuji and Kodak films..
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Attachment 92097
Kodal Mammography film in a mammography cassette
135KV / 3ma 4 seconds ;)
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Impatient man that I am (The thought of processing one sheet at a time in order to minimize scratching makes me cringe) I made some spacers out of a thin plastic mesh material to lay in between 4 sheets of 8X10 Xray film processed in a 10X12" tray. I normally process 4 to 6 sheets at a time using the shuffle method of agitation. This time I just rocked the tray, alternating from each side.
Anyway...it didn't work. I did minimize the scratching, but the trade off was some nasty uneven development in the areas where the film contacted the spacers :(
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52893762/test1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52893762/test2.jpg
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Randy, tanks and four at a time. It is a wonderful thing.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
I bet. Just trying to work with what I have at the moment. Just don't want to (read - can't afford to) spend the money on tanks and hangers. Guess I could make a tank...?
I did try processing in a Unicolor drum recently - 2 8X10 sheets at a time. Used very little chems (150ml) and minimal scratching. That is an option.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Randy, what happened to the emulsion on the other side when developing in a tank?
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andreios
Randy, what happened to the emulsion on the other side when developing in a tank?
depends on tank, afaik
In jobo print ones it goes dead. In unidrum ribs are present that do lift film a bit from walls , so both side on negative do develop in full.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Andreios, you mean drum? I have not processed in a dip & dunk tank, just tray and rottery drum, and as Sergie said, my drums have ribs but they had very little if any effect on the image processing. The film seems to process evenly on both sides.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Great idea, as one who has baulked at the price of 8x10 B+W, I may well give it a go, Some of the above don't look different to results I'm getting with Fomapan 100 in 8x10
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Yes, Randy, i did mean drums, not tanks... I wrote hastily and was tired. I use jobo paper drums for LF film, but I see I'll have to look round for Unicolor.. Thanks for the tip!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andreios
Yes, Randy, i did mean drums, not tanks... I wrote hastily and was tired. I use jobo paper drums for LF film, but I see I'll have to look round for Unicolor.. Thanks for the tip!
Andreois, I keep making the same mistake when referring to my rottery drums. Mine are Colourtronic, not Unicolor. I have had mine for many years. Don't know of their availability. Mine are lined with very thin ribs that keep the film/paper from laying against the drum wall. Good luck.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Just to let everyone know I developed some x-ray film dated February 2002 and the negatives are beautiful. B/F is about .19! So this stuff keeps pretty well I'd say. I got it off of e-bay and have stored it in my cabinet in the kitchen. It has not been cold stored since I got it. Just an FYI!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Haven't shown this to my Lady yet. Probably won't ('cause I want to keep using my 115mm lens).
CSX Green 8X10
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52893762/img142a.jpg
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Did some developer tests. I process 1 8x10 sheet at a time in a tray with glass on the bottom. Rodinal 1:50 5 min. XTOL 1:1 7 min, Xtodinal (XTOL 1:2 + Rodinal 1:100) 7 min, and Dektol 1:5 1.5 min.
XTOL and Xtodinal are nice, but I prefer the contrast of a Rodinal 1:50 and Dektol 1:5 on a #2 - #3 Filter, so I have plenty of room to add or subtract contrast later. I'm sticking with Rodinal 1:50 at about 5 min, because the XTOL short developing times make me nervous. My next tests will be with a Tiffen #11 green, Tiffen #12 yellow, and Chinese blue filter vs. no filter. I'm also going to try adding a small fill card to reflect the light a tiny bit on the right, just enough to bring some detail on the right side. Hope to do these before the weekend and start rolling out a bunch of shots next week. And since I've just about run out of RC paper, I'm going to start doing my final fiber prints with toning with homemade brews.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8...6ac3f0b6_b.jpg
Ahn, Young Jae by Lee Smathers, on Flickr
8x10 Korona, 12" Dagor
Fuji HR-A (High Speed Green Sensitive X-Ray), Rodinal 1:50, 5min
Ilford Multigrade RC, Dektol 1:2, #2 Filter
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8233/8...0b45713a_b.jpg
Sohn, Hyang Ah by Lee Smathers, on Flickr
8x10 Korona, 12" Dagor
Fuji HR-A (High Speed Green Sensitive X-Ray), Rodinal 1:50, 5min
Ilford Multigrade RC, Dektol 1:2, #2.5 Filter
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Fitzgerald
Lee, looking good!!
Thanks, Jim! Our TA (and grad student) has been interested in getting a 4x5 field camera, but since I've been doing 8x10 (x-ray), he's now considering getting an 8x10 camera instead. The detail is.... breathtaking. I'm still in the market to make a 14x17 camera like your recent 8x10. Holders are holding me back. My 7x17 is still in the shop getting fix. I'll do 7x17 x-ray next. Keeping my fingers crossed the size of the film and holders will be correct.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Fitzgerald
Just to let everyone know I developed some x-ray film dated February 2002 and the negatives are beautiful. B/F is about .19! So this stuff keeps pretty well I'd say. I got it off of e-bay and have stored it in my cabinet in the kitchen. It has not been cold stored since I got it. Just an FYI!
interesting. Good to know, as my fridge is.. umm.. well.. i got to leave some space for food.. 8))
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SergeiR
interesting. Good to know, as my fridge is.. umm.. well.. i got to leave some space for food.. 8))
Boy, I remember those days. I now have a 5 Cubic Foot freezer in my apartment. it is getting really full!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Fitzgerald
Boy, I remember those days. I now have a 5 Cubic Foot freezer in my apartment. it is getting really full!
well.. oddly enough i got one like that in russia, but not here.. :) might go there if i will find 14x17 back so i can convert one of my "donor" 4x5/8x10s fronts to it and start shooting with sole purpose of contact printing..
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Xray film work here is looking good, keep it up ! Check the back side of the film for the density if you develop by inspection.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tri Tran
Xray film work here is looking good, keep it up ! Check the back side of the film for the density if you develop by inspection.
Interesting comment. I'll try this tomorrow. Thanks!
I did portraits tests again today with no filter, yellow filter, green filter, and blue filter - male and female. 8 shots. I'll be in the darkroom again all day tomorrow. Will be ready to start taking pictures for the project on Monday.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Looking forward to your tests Lee! Great project idea also.
So I mentioned printing that shot a few pages back for a competition/show...well here it is! With me poking out my head for a bit of scale! It's a huge print - 34x27 inches, on metallic paper, matted to a full 40x32 size. Very happy with it. Sorry about the tint on the right, it's my wall reflecting off the plexi:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VeVyKYeGv7...0/DSC_2393.JPG
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
Looking forward to your tests Lee! Great project idea also.
So I mentioned printing that shot a few pages back for a competition/show...well here it is! With me poking out my head for a bit of scale! It's a huge print - 34x27 inches, on metallic paper, matted to a full 40x32 size. Very happy with it. Sorry about the tint on the right, it's my wall reflecting off the plexi:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VeVyKYeGv7...0/DSC_2393.JPG
Gasp!! Is this a darkroom print or printed from a scan? This is gorgeous either way!!!!!! Thanks for sharing this. I really hope you win!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Thank you! Nope, it's an ink print from a scan. I don't have an 8x10 enlarger, nor do I have paper this big. But I am impressed with how good it came out in tonality and detail!
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
Looking forward to your tests Lee! Great project idea also.
So I mentioned printing that shot a few pages back for a competition/show...well here it is! With me poking out my head for a bit of scale! It's a huge print - 34x27 inches, on metallic paper, matted to a full 40x32 size. Very happy with it. Sorry about the tint on the right, it's my wall reflecting off the plexi:
Bryan, who did the printing?
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Can somebody offer a little help to the old and feeble? I've been through this thread and seen several comments about, yes you do strip the back emulsion, no you don't strip the back emulsion...but I don't get it.
What is the advantage of stripping the emulsion, and how do you strip just the back emulsion without stripping it all? Forgive me if this was answered somewhere in here, but I went through the whole thread and didn't find it.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy
Bryan, who did the printing?
Local guy here in Valdosta. He only just acquired a big Epson 9600 printer from a business that closed its doors. I did kinda help him along with the computer operation to make sure things went smoothly. This worked out better than sending it out due to the size. He also mounted it directly to a mat board so it was ready to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Graves
Can somebody offer a little help to the old and feeble? I've been through this thread and seen several comments about, yes you do strip the back emulsion, no you don't strip the back emulsion...but I don't get it.
What is the advantage of stripping the emulsion, and how do you strip just the back emulsion without stripping it all? Forgive me if this was answered somewhere in here, but I went through the whole thread and didn't find it.
You can or can't, it doesn't matter, but regardless you need to shoot and develop with your process in mind - stripped negatives lose half their density so keep that in mind. I strip mine and fine it sharper that way. And according to our alt. process folks, you can't strip do to density range issues with those processes.
Tape the negative down and be careful with the bleach and you won't get seepage to the other side. Use a brush of some sort. I use bleach diluted 1:1, that seems to work much easier.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Thanks, Bryan. I intend to order a box of film just to play with. I'll probably stick to HP5 for my regular shooting--at least until I master the X-ray. But I'm dying to try this.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Did my color filter tests today, but the majority of them are drying on racks for the weekend (school darkroom is closed on weekends).
Here are a few new ones:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/8...d38af483_b.jpg
Jang, Ha Ryeon by Lee Smathers, on Flickr
8x10 Korona, 12" Dagor (no filter)
Fuji HR-A (High Speed Green Sensitive Xray), Rodinal 1:50, 4 min.
Fomabrom Variant 111, Dektol 1:2, #1.5 filter
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8...d595025c_b.jpg
Park, Hong Chul by Lee Smathers, on Flickr
8x10 Korona, 12" Dagor (no filter)
Fuji HR-A (High Speed Green Sensitive Xray), Rodinal 1:50, 4 min.
Fomabrom Variant 111, Dektol 1:2, #1.5 filter
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Can somebody offer a little help to the old and feeble? I've been through this thread and seen several comments about, yes you do strip the back emulsion, no you don't strip the back emulsion...but I don't get it.
What is the advantage of stripping the emulsion, and how do you strip just the back emulsion without stripping it all? Forgive me if this was answered somewhere in here, but I went through the whole thread and didn't find it.
As I have stated several times, if you are alt printing, do not strip. If you are scanning or printing on silver gel papers, then go ahead and strip. A stripped emulsion is slightly sharper, but you really cannot tell in a contact print unless you put prints side-by-side and look very carefully.
There is plenty of information in the original xray film thread http://www.largeformatphotography.in...highlight=xrayabout stripping. Another reason why this thread should be merged with that one...
andrew
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Yep, thats the thread i did read before starting.
on stripping for scanning. i dunno. I dont feel like unstripped (way how i do it) scans are really soft. At least not with betterscanning ANR glass , and 8 pennies on my V700 @2400dpi.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
It's not your scanner. They were soft on my Screen Cezanne too, pretty obviously.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corran
It's not your scanner. They were soft on my Screen Cezanne too, pretty obviously.
Thats the thing they arent soft at all for me. Pretty bleedin' sharp.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Sorry, misread that. Well there is certainly no way any 8x10 is soft generally speaking, but anyway, it was obvious enough to me.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
I posted a pretty extreme crop back on page 42 of this thread, of some small mushrooms. For my size of printing (from 8X10) stripping would be unnecessary.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Yes, I'm sure for most uses it wouldn't be any problem, but for instance, that big print I did probably was a bit sharper generally speaking since I stripped it.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
I'm not stripping my negatives, but I also haven't determined what I'll be doing after I finish the contact print project. The negatives seem really sharp to me. I can't imagine them any sharper. Maybe I'll do some testing with stripping the negatives once this project is complete. Sure wish I could enlarge 8x10, that would be incredible! I made some 30 x 40 prints of Tri-X 4x5 at ISO 1250 in Diafine from my Epson v750 scans and was pleased. I'm sure an 8x10 xray scan will be better around the same size.
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Re: Images shot on X-ray film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randy
I posted a pretty extreme crop back on page 42 of this thread, of some small mushrooms. For my size of printing (from 8X10) stripping would be unnecessary.
What scanner are you using, Randy? Those mushrooms looks nice from here.