Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

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Originally Posted by Eugen Mezei

I also use D23 but diluted 1+3 and with less agitation (first half minute constant and than every 3 minutes a short shake).
You could try to use an oversized tray if you have turbulences. The thinking behind this is that in a narrow tray you have vawes reflecting from the walls of the tray.

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Do you pre-soak before developing? I do (in water), it washes off some kind of protective layer (anti-twisting?) with blue dye. If this is not done, the developer will take on a pink tint...

Upd.
ok, I took a 12x16 tray (my sheets 8x10)with glass (because there is no flat one of that size), pre-soaked sheet in water for 1 m, agitated in dev first 30 seconds and then gently once every 3 minutes. I moved a sheet that had slipped down the glass a couple of times (a horizontal stripe remained from the glass), 12 min in developer D-23 1+2. I slightly increased the contrast in PS. and yes, this is one of the best results, but the “crumpled pillow” effect is still there..
Attachment 255646

I do not presoak. Just slip it in 1+3 (one part developer diluted with 3 parts water) D23, gently but continuosly agitate the first 30 seconds. After that I rock the tray 2-3 times every 3 minutes and I develop very long but at very low temperatures. I also do not use a sheet of glass, just a plastic tray that has no ridges at the bottom. (It is a big white plastic tray, way oversized even for the biggest format I develop, the restaurant that is belov my apartment trow away. Has the advantage as being white and somewhat translucent I can shine red light from below.) I get even development but my intention is to change from tray to frames in a big tank. (I already bought the tank but being a women packed and shipped it, it get shattered in transport. I will try to glue it, will see if it will be usable. She also sent me the frames they did the developing of their X-ray films in their animal clinic but they pinch the film and I don't like that.)

Are you changing the direction of agitation?
Do you get this pattern also with other films?
How was the film stored? Can it be these are pressure marks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eugen Mezei

Are you changing the direction of agitation?
Do you get this pattern also with other films?
How was the film stored? Can it be these are pressure marks?

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in this session I did not change the direction because during my development, I swing the tray only 3 times (3m, 6m,9m) and swung it weakly by the lower right corner. the drawing changes every time and depends on the agitation, so (it seems to me ??) this is not related to storage...I have three boxes of X-ray films (kodak min-r s 2016exp, carestream min-r s 2022exp, SFM 2029). №3 is symmetrical double-sided film- I get even development in a flat tray, but №1 and №2 have absolutely identical results.I keep them in the refrigerator (not the freezer), how they were stored before me is not exactly known, but they were specialized sellers. and I would have given up this idea with an expired film a long time ago, but the fact that the drawing changes every time from agitation makes me hope that it is still possible to work with this film somehow...
I will attach below 3 photos from the last test

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Originally Posted by Medvedev_Dop

I will attach below 3 photos from the last test

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1. flat-bottomed tray. the first 30 sec - agitation in different directions, every 3 minutes careful swaying by the lower right corner
2. flat-bottomed tray.everything is the same, but very weak agitation:the first 30 sec - agitation in different directions + turned the sheet over twice, every 3 minutes just shook the tray. I decided to do it, because it is written in the manual of Kodak min-r s that it is impossible to agitate during the development at all! and as I see it, as we approach to the stand-development, the clarity of this "crumpled pillow" increases and the density of the edge is leveled.
3.vertical tank.full stand-dev, only at the beginning shaking the hangers (as in the Kodak manual) in my DIY 3.5L vertical tank, and it is not coping at all.. it clearly lacks volume. ..

contrast increased in Ph.
D-23 1+2 12min 20°C
Attachment 255662
Attachment 255663

Okay, I'll try with an even bigger flat tray.... or even make an exhibition of prints with a "crumpled pillow", in general, it already looks interesting))):cool:;)

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Originally Posted by Medvedev_Dop

1. flat-bottomed tray. the first 30 sec - agitation in different directions, every 3 minutes

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agitation must be much more frequent in order to refresh the developer on contact with emulsion as well as to avoid deposit in the emulsion of the byproducts of development.

there is one comment with POTA developed example in this long thread, in 2019:

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1499931

last week on travel I bought two packs of Agfa CP-BU blue double-sided in 13x18cm/5x7". Had a flight before yesterday from Genève and there were very long lines, I didn't want to risk to miss the plane so went regular security gates, didn't bother to ask for separated inspection. Rays tunnels were of the small old kind anyway, typically doesn't affect regular film. Back home just to be sure I exposed a sheet. I mixed 300ml POTA with phenidone-A ie. the usual phenidone. As I had in the post phenidone-B (methyl-phenidone) bought in december, I mixed also 300ml POTA with this for another identical exposure. I took a quick shot of some bookshelf home, at iso 100, and developed in tray with a glass plate on bottom, under red light. Took out of POTA bath at 3'10", stop with water under the faucet and regular rapid fixer.

phenidone A and phenidone B:

Attachment 256143

the book cover on the left is dark blue , on the right red:

Attachment 256144


I didn't pay much caution to manipulation, yet tried to avoid scratchs.
These are 13x18 sheets but I shot in 12x16,5cm holder ie. 1/2-plate. So had to cut. I use a template for the 16,5cm cut then a roller cutter for the 12cm. Use regular office paper wrapped around the sheet as a protection. Seems to work. On the first photo let there's one defect, the other is good.

Attachment 256145 Attachment 256148 Attachment 256149 Attachment 256150Attachment 256151

Yes, I always did this, until I discovered that I was getting uneven development directly related to the type and direction of agitation. I started trying different methods...
with active bi-directional agitation I got this:
Attachment 256171

I've been using D-23 for a while now when developing X-RAY film. In a continuation from part 1, I compare D-23 stock, and various dilutions...


https://youtu.be/vQXWfuvPvo0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Medvedev_Dop

Do you pre-soak before developing? I do (in water), it washes off some kind of protective layer (anti-twisting?) with blue dye. If this is not done, the developer will take on a pink tint...

Upd.
ok, I took a 12x16 tray (my sheets 8x10)with glass (because there is no flat one of that size), pre-soaked sheet in water for 1 m, agitated in dev first 30 seconds and then gently once every 3 minutes. I moved a sheet that had slipped down the glass a couple of times (a horizontal stripe remained from the glass), 12 min in developer D-23 1+2. I slightly increased the contrast in PS. and yes, this is one of the best results, but the “crumpled pillow” effect is still there..
Attachment 255646

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I make my own developers - Here is one that I reformulated from the "ANSCO-30" developer for X-ray developing machines --- The original was way too strong. If you want a detailed PDF of my experiments with X-ray films - Please send a Private Message. (The PDF is free od any fees and charges.) Film used was Fuji HR-U @ 100 ISO... (I should have exposed these at 50 ISO.) Handheld R.B. Graflex 4X5.

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Here is the Ansco-30-JK reformulated “Tank Developer Stock Solution”

Water - at 120 Degrees F. -------------------750ml.
Metol --------------------------------------------------------- 3.0 Grams. (Reduced)
Sodium Sulfite ----------------------------------------- 70.0 G. (Increased)
Hydroquinone ------------------------------------------- 4.0 G. (Reduced)
Sodium Carbonate ------------------------------------ 20.0 G. (Reduced)
Potassium Bromide ------------------------------------- 5.5 G. (Increased)
Cold water to make a Full 1 liter of Solution. (STOCK solution.)

For a working solution --
Take One Part of this Stock to 24 Parts of Water. That is a 1:25 Ratio. (i.e.= 1 Oz. stock to 24 Oz. Water)
The times will vary with the temperature of the working solution, anywhere from four to seven minutes.
(20 Degrees C. = 6 minutes)

Attachment 256188

Just opened up a box with two fresh bottles of Rodinal. It just works and I continue to suggest Rodinal for x-ray film, especially for new users. At 1:100 dilution it is as economical as can be.