Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

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Originally Posted by Randy

It does help - thanks. I will look into the 3" tubes. If you get a chance, perhaps post a picture of your tube assembly some time - or if there is one already posted somewhere, can you direct me to it. Thanks.

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Randy (and anyone else who might be interested),

Finally took some pictures of the PVC tubes that I mentioned testing.

Top pic from left to right:
18x24cm/8x10" tube (takes one film).
13x18cm/5x7" tube (takes two films).
End cap assembly, glued to a coupling.
Coupling by itself.
Screw cap with its base.

Bottom pics from left to right, looking through:
18x24cm/8x10" tube
13x18cm/5x7" tube (with the "stopper" of the coupling protruding, which helps the two negs stay away from each other)
Coupling

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/873/2...3623aef9_b.jpg

Now, since my last post I developed 10 more sheets of 18x24cm film.
Half of them single-sided mammography film, and half double sided.
8 came out ok.
1 refused to come out for washing (even though after fixing I place the tubes vertically in the sink and fill them with water to reduce friction), resulting in two massive scratches on the back side.
1 came out with streaks of uneven development (no idea why).

Also, I don't have a motorized roller base (had plans of building one if/when I concluded that this developing method works for me), and I can tell you that manually rotating the tubes for 16min for each sheet gets old real fast.

In conclusion, this method might be worth looking into, only if you have a motorized roller base, *and* you shoot a relatively small amount of film.

Scan from a contact print on Ilford MG warmtone paper at grade 1.

More often than not, I make two identical exposures of any scene I deem worthy, so that I get a second chance if processing goes wrong on the first negative.

In this case, the first one came out ok (way back when), so the duplicate was kept aside to be used for testing.

The negative that made this print was developed last week, more than two years after exposure, which speaks volumes for the stability of the latent image on exposed xray films (or at the very least on this particular film, Agfa CPG+).

18x24cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), developed in Ilford MG paper developer (1+50) in a Jobo 2830 drum for 8'min.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/924/4...00b07c51_b.jpg

I had a similar experience with Kodak High Speed Green X-ray film. In 2012 I made four exposures of a scene and developed three of them over the next few days. The fourth sheet stayed in my paper safe for two years before being processed in 2014. The image looked identical the best of the three processed two years earlier. This is significant, because X-ray film is almost always processed immediately after exposure in a professional setting, so the manufacturers don't have any reason to strive for long term latent image quality. I'm guessing latent image preservation goes along with other desirable characteristics that good X-ray film needs to have.

Thodoris, thankyou for sharing your experiences with your tubes, much the same experiences I had with tubes, but you had much better results. Speaking of the electric rollers, I had one, using a mod54 in a Paterson dev tank (3 spool version). The only problem with the electric roller I found was that as the developer is only turning one way I was still getting uneven development, so I got out my spare electric roller to use in the opposite direction. I changed rollers every minute or so and got really good results

Well, sharing our experiences and inspiring each other is what it's all about, right?

Here is a scan from a contact print on Hahnemühle Platinum Rag coated with Mike Ware's Cyanotype formula.

Using the same in-camera negative from which I printed the silver gelatin contact print in my previous post.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/828/4...005220d3_b.jpg

Thanks for posting both prints.

I am wavering on Cyanotype

Which do you prefer?

Randy,

Even though I do like how the cyanotype turned out (also did a darker version, but I like this one better), I'm not the biggest fan of this process in general.

Despite all my experience in silver printing, my only previous experience in "alternative processes" are a handful of prints I did some 20 years ago in a workshop. Still a total newbie, taking my first steps in climbing the proverbial learning curve.

(Having a working knowledge of sensitometry helps immensely though.)

So, before trying out something more challenging, like palladium or carbon transfer, I thought it would be best to try a simpler (and cheaper) process first.

30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.

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Originally Posted by Miguel Coquis

30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.

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Nice!

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Originally Posted by Thodoris Tzalavras

Randy,

Even though I do like how the cyanotype turned out (also did a darker version, but I like this one better), I'm not the biggest fan of this process in general.

Despite all my experience in silver printing, my only previous experience in "alternative processes" are a handful of prints I did some 20 years ago in a workshop. Still a total newbie, taking my first steps in climbing the proverbial learning curve.

(Having a working knowledge of sensitometry helps immensely though.)

So, before trying out something more challenging, like palladium or carbon transfer, I thought it would be best to try a simpler (and cheaper) process first.

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Very good idea that I should follow!

Maybe try Van Dyke! I made some from x-ray film years ago. I personally am not a fan of the color of cyanotypes generally. I've seen some toned cyanotypes that were okay though, but never experimented with that myself.

Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?


I have read Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from Photograghers Formulary.

I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.

I ordered some today.

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Originally Posted by jon.oman

Nice!

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:)

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Originally Posted by Miguel Coquis

30x40cm negative (double sided, green sensitive), hand development on plastic trays.
D76
1/1
8 min, 20°C
continus agitation
film rated 9 ASA
Base rabbit cages trays are useful, cheap and available in large format dimension.

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Miguel, beautiful! I see the x-ray film is working very well for you.

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?


I have read Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from Photograghers Formulary.

I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.

I ordered some today.

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It's the only devloper I've used, apart from a failed experiment with Rodinal. See Mercury Photo Bureau for examples.

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Originally Posted by seezee

It's the only devloper I've used, apart from a failed experiment with Rodinal. See Mercury Photo Bureau for examples.

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Rodinal is all I have used on any film for 7 years. I am anxious to try Pyrocat HD.

Very interesting X-Ray project and website, I put it on a slow scroll and love the flutist placement. Saw a couple a couple times. I think...

Do you print the musician portraits?

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?

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Yes, usually 1+150. Works like a charm.

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

All I have seen are round corners. Buy larger and cut it down. I cut to all smaller sizes, even down to Hasselblad.

One advantage to RC is no sharp edges scratching other negs if shuffling.

Save scraps for fixer checking.

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The other advantage is that you can use the corner to remind you which way was facing the lens if you're using film with emulsion on both sides. I always load mine with the rounded corner placed where the notch codes would normally go.

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Rodinal is all I have used on any film for 7 years. I am anxious to try Pyrocat HD.

Very interesting X-Ray project and website, I put it on a slow scroll and love the flutist placement. Saw a couple a couple times. I think...

Do you print the musician portraits?

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Thank you. I am still setting up my darkroom so I haven't made any prints yet. Depending on whether I get any good at it is going to make a big difference when I start grant writing to finance the show — paying someone else to print increases the cost by an order of magnitude!

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Originally Posted by koraks

Yes, usually 1+150. Works like a charm.

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I dilute 1:200, but that's for semi-stand development in a daylight tank (HP Combi+). YMMV.

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Anybody using Pyrocat HD.

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Been there , had horrible results , went back to r09.

I honestly think there is no magic developer, magic processing temp or time .

ro9 is all I have used for 7 years.

The PHD just arrived. Now I have to try it!

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Originally Posted by SergeiR

Been there , had horrible results , went back to r09.

I honestly think there is no magic developer, magic processing temp or time .

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For this year's Pinhole Day, I converted my Kodak Master View 8x10 to a pinhole!

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Kodak Master 8x10 camera, fitted with a 0.46mm pinhole, at 120mm focal length.
30"sec exposure on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in Ilford MG 1+50 for 8'min in a glass plated tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/909/4...c7dce86d_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Thodoris Tzalavras

For this year's Pinhole Day, I converted my Kodak Master View 8x10 to a pinhole!

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Kodak Master 8x10 camera, fitted with a 0.46mm pinhole, at 120mm focal length.
30"sec exposure on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in Ilford MG 1+50 for 8'min in a glass plated tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/909/4...c7dce86d_b.jpg

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Great pinhole image!

I've participated in Pinhole Day in the past. No time this year!

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Anybody using Pyrocat HD with X-Ray film?


I have read Sandy King many times. I will try Pyrocat HD Liguid glycol from Photograghers Formulary.

I deduce from Sandy King's testing that Pyrocat HD may be good for Azo and Ilford Multigrade paper. The stain may work differently on each and perhaps in X-Rays favor.

I ordered some today.

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I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.

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Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill

I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.

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Thanks, Andrew, that is my interest.

And a stack of Azo 8X10.

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Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill

I use Pyrocat-HD with x-ray. 10ml each A and B into 1 litre of water. Flat-bottomed tray, agitated NSEW once every minute. Been doing it this way for 10 years. The same negative prints nicely on silver papers, as well as kallitype, and carbon transfer.

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Andrew, interesting. 10ml of A&B. How long is your developing time for a carbon negative?

8x10 Kodak CSG, 1:100 R09, rotary development for 15 minutes

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/2...18e6df1e_c.jpgWine barrels by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr

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Originally Posted by SergeiR

8x10 Kodak CSG, 1:100 R09, rotary development for 15 minutes

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/2...18e6df1e_c.jpgWine barrels by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr

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Nice!

Sergei, it seems you have extended your R09 times?

Looks very good.

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Sergei, it seems you have extended your R09 times?

Looks very good.

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Just been lazy and 15 was ready on display of watch :)

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Originally Posted by SergeiR

8x10 Kodak CSG, 1:100 R09, rotary development for 15 minutes

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/950/2...18e6df1e_c.jpgWine barrels by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr

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Wowzer!

Seezee, that's one of the best I've seen on x-ray. I'm going back to give it a try again.
What rating did you shoot it at?

Kodak Master View 8x10 with a Fujinon W 250mm on a rather windy day by the beach.
Agfa CPG+ xray film, developed in Ilford MG paper developer (1+50) for 8'min.
Scan from a contact print on Ilford MGWT paper at grade 3.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/865/4...e3975727_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Nukatpiat

Seezee, that's one of the best I've seen on x-ray. I'm going back to give it a try again.
What rating did you shoot it at?

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Are you speaking of the OKIE-X project that I linked to? Those were shot with 2 lights and a reflector. I used the same settings listed for these 2 portraits. The key light is set to -5.2f & the background light is set to -4.2f. Pneumatic shutter only fires at ~1⁄25 second. I rate the film at about ISO 25 under the 5600K lights.

Glad to see you're going to try again!

Could the experienced folk here chime in on my attempt to misuse an x-ray film processor to allow me to use x-ray http://www.largeformatphotography.in...000A-Processor

ZZ Medical has a 5% discount on everything (including x-ray film) thru 29 May. The code is

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MEMORIAL

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Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

ro9 is all I have used for 7 years.

The PHD just arrived. Now I have to try it!

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Have you tried the PHD?? Whats your opinion on it??

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Originally Posted by andrewch59

Have you tried the PHD?? Whats your opinion on it??

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Not yet.

Life keeps getting in the way of photography.

Right now my excuse is unbalanced vision from ongoing surgery.

Soon. I hope.

Speedy recovery to you.

1"sec exposure at f16 on 18x24 Agfa HDR xray film.
Developed in 1+50 Ilford MG paper developer for 8.5'min in a glass plated 10x12" tray.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/901/2...34735d80_b.jpg

Has anyone had any experience with this x-ray film? It looks like it has been repackaged for sale by this distributer.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7ce63a6b2f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...42618e0b22.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agfa https://www.amazon.com/5941863-EK8FL.../dp/B005781IO2

Just use it.

Next time buy this https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-acce...-ray-film.html

Thank you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Agfa https://www.amazon.com/5941863-EK8FL.../dp/B005781IO2

Just use it.

Next time buy this https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-acce...-ray-film.html

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It's still on sale thru midnight tonight. Coupon code MEMORIAL.

Amazing deal. To bad shipping is so expensive to the Netherlands. In the end the costs will be more then when I buy a pack of 18x24cm film in the Netherlands. Even when buying three packs of film.

Hello. This is my first successful experience with x-ray film.
Fotokor 1 + Carestream MXBE + Rodinal 1:40 for 7 min in a plastic tray.
There was table lamp as a light source and I exposed it about 3 seconds at 4.5 aperture.
I've been trying to shoot outdoors without any luck, the negatives turn out to be heavily underexposed. All this time I rate the film as 100 ISO + 3-4 EV with an external light meter. But after reading the last pages of this thread I see that you rate it as 9-25 ISO, so maybe I should just take a lot more time to expose correctly.
UPD. I have read a bit more and it looks like I screw up with developer dilution and time but not with film ISO.
Attachment 178891Attachment 178892

Outdoors the speed will vary by time of day. Depending on latitude & time of year, before 10 AM or after 2 PM you will lose speed. This is due the the change in color temperature as well as to the total amount of light.

Your meter reads all of the visible light, but the film only sees blue or blue + green. Too early or too late in the day, not enough blue light.

Thanks, seezee! I will definetely take this in attention in upcoming shots.
And I finally found a clue to constantly destroying negatives. My "safelight" turned out to be way too bright, I put in 25 watt bulb and now everything works perfect.
Fotokor at 4.5, ~80 ISO, Rodinal 1:100 for 7 min, DSLR scan
Attachment 179083

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Originally Posted by alefrei

Thanks, seezee! I will definetely take this in attention in upcoming shots.
And I finally found a clue to constantly destroying negatives. My "safelight" turned out to be way too bright, I put in 25 watt bulb and now everything works perfect.
Fotokor at 4.5, ~80 ISO, Rodinal 1:100 for 7 min, DSLR scan
Attachment 179083

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Di nada. Since you probably haven't read all 506 pages of this thread, have a look at this and this. Use them with a standard clamp light, such as this.

Cheers,

— CZ