Okay, here is one of several images I shot on green sensitive x-ray film. This stuff is the bomb!! This is a carbon transfer print, of course.
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Okay, here is one of several images I shot on green sensitive x-ray film. This stuff is the bomb!! This is a carbon transfer print, of course.
Jim, what pigment did you use?
I had a fantastic time at the workshop in Canada with Vaughn. I have one 11x14 filmholder 99% done. The wood is acclimating for the run after all evaluations have been completed on the working model, which is usable but in a different wood species.
Nice image there.
Curt
Thanks, I do love the tone in this image as it fits the mood of the church and scene. Now Tri, come on now you know I always keep good notes! That was one of Vaughn's first comments to me and as I recall I have said the same thing to my students. I put a little extra in the black cat.
Curt, nice going if you are building your own film holders. Let me know how they work when you get them done. That is very difficult to do.
Here are some 8x10" pinhole images taken on Fuji HR-U green sensitive film.
Developed in Rodinal 1+100 for 6 minutes, backside emulsion stripped using chloride bleach.
Exposure was measured around ISO 50-100 depending on the light.
http://www.mgeiss.de/bilder/lochkamera/lk01.jpg
http://www.mgeiss.de/bilder/lochkamera/lk03.jpg
http://www.mgeiss.de/bilder/lochkamera/lk04.jpg
http://www.mgeiss.de/bilder/lochkamera/lk06.jpg
Outstanding work, mgeiss. It shows how much you can do with a simple camera and inexpensive film.
mgeiss, bravo! Well done, indeed. Inspiring! What were your exposure times like?
I agree, nice images!
never seen the need to do the stripping. Never done it and my images print just fine. KISS is how I work.
I'm definitely going to try the stripping, along with a few other wild ideas I have. Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know if I learn anything useful.
Thanks for your comments!
@Jay
Exposure was between a few seconds in sunlight and a few minutes on cloudy days. The camera has an f/300 pinhole and i usually add some exposure for reciprocity effects.
@Dann
Yes, the stripping works just fine. A few seconds and all that is left on the backside is a nice clean film base.
@Jim
It depends on how you develop the film. I use Jobo Expert drums when i have more than one sheet to develop, or a Jobo 1520-1530 combo for single sheets. When the wet films are taken out of the drums, I get big scratches on the back almost every time. I never got to like tray or tank processing and don't have a permanent darkroom.
So there is the problem. If you are going to shoot x-ray film you need to use flat bottomed trays or tanks. I use tanks for the 8x10 and trays for my ULF stuff. Remember you can scratch the film loading and unloading. It amazes my how people scratch film, but they do.
I don't see it as a problem much, it's just two minutes more work with every sheet and soon becomes routine. I don't need the extra density from the second emulsion either, so for me there's no need keeping it. :)
I know many people prefer tanks or trays, but I really like the expert drums for anything 4x5" or larger.
Besides that, I use it only for pinhole imaging and do my normal 8x10" work on Efke.
And for the stripping, you tape the negative, good side down, to a sheet of glass and paint on the bleach mix, then rinse off, right? Or has the protocol evolved?
Think it's time I pull the trigger on some green 10x12...
Danke, herr Geiss! I only tried drum development of X-Ray film once, with exactly the results you describe- I got a perfectly developed negative with huge scratches on the back. Now I wish I hadn't thrown that negative away!
If you intend to use xray film for alternative processes such as carbon, you should not strip the backside emulsion as you will end up with a negative with half the density range. No problem if you are printing on VC or graded papers silver papers.
Dann,
I didn't use anything but pure bleach (Danklorix brand here in Germany) yet. I tape the sheet to a piece of glass and keep it horizontally. I haven't experienced any problems with this method and just use a soft 2" brush to apply the bleach, wait a few seconds to let the bleach work and give it a short rinse. Most of the time, there will be some spots left, where the emulsion didn't go away, so I do a second run. After that, I rinse again and wipe everything with a soft, damp and lint-free cloth.
Jim, I work with a hybrid workflow (for now), so scan my negatives. Also, I do daylight drum developing, and have no facilities for tray developing, so a scratched back emulsion is going to happen. So stripping looks like it might be the way to go for me. I might try carbon one day, and have a proper darkroom to develop in, but today ain't the day...
A salt print made with an 8x10 negative -- blue sensitive x-ray film, developed at the hospital's lab.
I tried exposing more as well as developing more. Exposing more did nothing but give me a negative with waaaaaay too much base + fog. And you can only go so far with over-development before you get too much base + fog. I only tried this with pyrocat-hd. Maybe with a high contrast developer such as D-19, it might work. Wanted to try it, but have been too busy making carbon prints rather than experimenting.Quote:
I have a question regarding this topic, as I don't print carbon. Since I strip the emulsion on x-ray film, I always expose my film as if it had only one emulsion layer. How much additional exposure would be required to print carbon with one emulsion layer?
Very, very nice salt print, Vaughn!
Andrew,
I'm sure I can get plenty of contrast and Density Range one side of X-Ray film for carbon printing by developing in 510-Pyro. My developing times are short, and so there's a lot of room for increased development. I'm not sure why increased exposure would produce fog, unless by fog you mean excess density. Since I plan to increase development significantly, I'll decrease exposure to compensate for the increased development. To extend density range it's important to keep the low densities low while extending the higher densities. Increasing exposure is contraindicated in this scenario.
I found two boxes of 18x24cm mammography film.
This is what i found online:
"HDR-C Plus Mamoray film is a single-sided orthochromatic mammography film that is part of the Agfa HealthCare film / screen system for mammography. The film uses both Split Emulsion Layer (S.E.L.) and the Cubic Crystal technologies. Agfa’s Split Emulsion Layer technology provides the Mamoray HDR-C Plus film with three emulsion layers on one side of the film. Each layer consists of monodispersed Cubic Crystals of identical size.
A particular strong point is the system’s high dynamic range. For every image, the contrast is optimized for each density range. Equally, the system provides excellent visualisation of details which are further enhanced by the masking effect of high maximum density in the non-image area adjacent to the skin-line."
It should be less contrasted than standard double-sided X-Ray film, and the three-layer emulsion should be a nice solution for pictorial photography (wide range of illumination level on the same picture).
There are very few mammography film available, so i guess that somebody had the chance to test the Agfa HDR-C.
What's the best EI/developer combination i should start with?
Are the results comparable with modern orthochromatic film?
I don't like the rounded corners and the lack of notch codes: the former is not a really a problem, while the notches could be punched under red light.
If the film turns out to be usable, then i have 200 sheets for every kind of test, bellows checking, film holders checking, experimenting with developers, etc. for a very affordable price. After that, i should still have a lot of sheets left :)
I am not going to do any alt. technique in the near future, just scanning (with stitching) and contact printing on silver paper, so the contrast of the negative should be kept under control.
have fun
CJ
I'm getting good results developing "green latitude" using Dektol at 1:10 by inspection. I'm going to try the bleach next.
I wish xray were available in 12x20, but it is not, that I am aware of.
It is available in 24x24 and 10x12 though, which gives me two options.
1) splice two sheets of 10x12 together - emulsion on both sides though, how do I keep them in place? A small piece of tape or two on the backside at the splice?
2) cut down 24x24 - I've heard it over and over this stuff scratches easily.
Are either of these viable options if I want to play with cheap film? Or am I SOL? I mean for the chump change they are asking I might play anyway, just thought I'd get some feedback first before I place an order.
2) -- I tape down a clean sheet of paper on the cutting board to reduce the possibility of scratching while cutting down 14x17 x-ray to 7x17, 11x14 or 8x10. Seems to help.
Thanks Andrew -- I might be printing it and the negs of my other two sons in platinum.
Vaughn
I've been following this thread over the years with only a passing curiosity since I shoot 4x5 for which high quality B&W film is still "reasonably" priced. However a couple of months ago I took the plunge and purchased a Toyo 810G and X-ray film suddenly became a viable choice to shoot a lot of images with that camera that I wouldn't ordinarily do because of the cost. So yesterday I ordered a 100 sheet box of Kodak's green sensitive x-ray film: http://www.zzmedical.com/zencart/8x1...ilm-p-419.html
I have one question that hasn't been addressed in this thread so far: How long do the negatives last before they start to fade? I ran across this issue yesterday while searching the web for a Kodak Data Sheet on the film. Supposedly X-ray negatives fade over time. If that is correct then is that fading do to the chemical processing they typically receive in the health care environment and would the standard B&W processing that we photographers use would prevent that fading?
Finally, here's an interesting local (San Francisco) news feature on a local ULF photographer that uses X-ray film that was broadcast last week: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...sco&id=8310514
An exhibition is currently at Inclusions Gallery in San Francisco thru 9/18/2011 where a Discussion/Q&A session will be held this Thursday from 7-9PM. The artists Reception was held this past Saturday and the gallery curator told me that the place was completely packed with people standing out on the sidewalk.
Thomas
From what I have been able to determine, practically all x-ray film manufactured in the past 30 years is on a polyester base and not acetate.
Here is a quote from the reference that I ran across yesterday regarding fading - actually fogging:
"X-ray film will fog slowly with time, the extent depending markedly on how well it is stored. This fogging, along with the optical density of the film base, will generate a low density in the toe section of the Characteristic Curve." See http://www.e-radiography.net/radtech/f/film.htm.
Finally, here is a link to the Kodak Data sheet that I found: http://www.taldent.ee/est/med/filmid/mxg.pdf
Thomas
It's true that Xray film builds up B+F slowly before exposure (seen it happen at the lab when we used a lot of it for autoradiography), but after processing there is no reason that the negative is as stable as normally processed negatives..maybe the grain size is smaller than standard film..
I guess fading after processing is due to sloppy processing (running the developing machine too long with exhausted fixer, washing too short etc..)
best,
Cor
That word they are using on the film section"
"supercoat"
I don't think it means what they think it means.
How about overcoat or last, soft, coat
That's good to know. I'll have to try some single sided xray film. Thanks Jay.Quote:
I'm sure I can get plenty of contrast and Density Range one side of X-Ray film for carbon printing by developing in 510-Pyro.
andrew
My doorbell just rang and UPS forked them over:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6083/...1e5b2c93cf.jpg
Joe, I think the 24x24 is cm not inches. I think you have three options:
1. buy 14x36 and cut down to 12x20; leaves a piece of 11x14 as well
2. use two sheets of 12x10 side by side; yes, use clear tape if needed to hold into place
3. cut 14x17 down to 12x17 and tape down one end to center in your 12x20 holder
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6083/...1e5b2c93cf.jpg[/QUOTE]
FWIW, the above Kodak ClinicSelect Green X-ray film was until recently named KODAK Medical X-ray Film / 5156 / MXG and the data sheet that I linked to in my earlier post is for this film. Incidentally the films current manufacturer, Carestream Health HQ'd in Rochester, was formerly Eastman Kodak Company's Health Group.
Thomas
With all of the recent interest in x-ray film I thought it would be helpful to have a thread dedicated to the images made. If you do not have prints done yet then post the scan of the neg. That is okay I guess but for me printing is where it is at. Tell us what you used and the details if you wish. This should show what can be done with x-ray film.
8x10 carbon transfer print. Green sensitive x-ray film Developed in Pyrocat-HD in Tanks 1:1:100 for 6 minutes.
This was one of my first prints from x-ray film. "Faces in the Palm"
Very nice Jim! Nice idea for a thread too. May I ask at what iso you rated the film? And IIRC you used the CSX online green, right? I ordered some Fuji green sensitive, it's on the way.
FWIW, the above Kodak ClinicSelect Green X-ray film was until recently named KODAK Medical X-ray Film / 5156 / MXG and the data sheet that I linked to in my earlier post is for this film. Incidentally the films current manufacturer, Carestream Health HQ'd in Rochester, was formerly Eastman Kodak Company's Health Group.
Thomas[/QUOTE]
And this is single sided coating or double sided coating? I looked at the website link and either I'm a dummy or it didn't say.
MB
I have a box of the Kodak High Speed Green X-ray film in 8X10. I believe it's the same stuff, except the emulsion is faster. Mine is double sided. Mamography film is single sided, but comes in weird sizes. I think most 8X10 medical X-ray films are double sided.
Joe, I'm bad. I rated this at ISO 80 and yes it is the CSX Green sensitive. Here is another print. Now I believe that the film is great regardless of how you print. I print carbon transfer and love the density I get with this film but you can develop it to the density you need for your printing process. Loading, unloading and developing in a red safe light make it easy.
Same info on this shot.
Jim, do you mean the CXS Green film made by Agfa? Thanks.
Yes, that is the one. I have found that just about any of the green x-ray films behave the same.I have McKesson 11x14 green and 3m 14x17 green sensitive. I shoot them all at 80.
It's very nice of you to create this thread Jim. It will be a useful threat with lots of info for Xray user.
@ Philippe: The green Xray is rated at 100 ISO that means it will fit to the Green Xray Lab film holder. I rated it at 80 for my application for both PT/PL and Carbon print. The film is super contrast so I usually exposed the shadow at Zone IV.
The Blue Xray is rated at 400, and it fits to the Xray lab blue holder. That's it.
Thanks, Jim and Tri!
What is nobody printing or having any success with x-ray film? Hard to believe. Here is another one. Some Lilies shot in the studio.
Scanned silver prints from 8x10 blue-sensitive Agfa x-ray
Thanks, Ari,
I made a nice salt print from the negitive on the right last week. I might try the negatives with Platinum/palladium.
Below is the third image (accidently reversed), and a carbon print of Alex and a redwood. All on the Agra blue-sensitive.
Vaughn, they look very nice to me! You have to learn x-ray film just like any other film. Once you do it is not so bad. It has a unique character.