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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
senderoaburrido
Sezee:
How am I actually meant to take the negatives out of the holder? I try and place them in very carefully, but when taking them out, I struggle because I have no nails. I figured that using a tool or implement might be more of a risk for scratching them than nails.
Taco method is attractive, but I feel like I'd be at even greater risk of scratching the negatives. I have awful clumsy hands.
I load the film with the rounded corner at the bottom of the holder and slip a fingernail under it to lift the negative. On some occasions when the nitrile gloves are just too much in the way, I use the point of a pocket knife and very gently lift. You could use tweezer or forceps, too, I suppose. The emulsion isn't as soft when dry, so if you're careful, you wont scratch it. And if you do, it's at the edge where it can be safely cropped (or ignored).
Do ensure that your hands/gloves are dry before attempting to unload.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Marcin, does it look like the film is getting enough development? 6 minutes for both tray and rotary doesn't sound right. I've developed in the same dilution in a flat-bottomed tray for longer, tubes for less. Make sure when working with trays, your giving the film enough agitation.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Thank you, Andrew.
From what I see, the negative looks just right for traditional wet darkroom (no albumen or Pl-Pd density).
My speed is rather low 50 ASA and the drum rotation also contributes to the relatively short developing time.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
It's really odd that you are getting streaks/marks using both methods. Are you also presoaking the film before development? I skip this.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Hi all, I've been experimenting rotary developing double-sided Xray film, and not having had much success to get rid of marks on the back side. I'm using a JOBO tube. Any ideas how to eliminate the marks? I know tray development in a darkroom could do. But really want to find a way to do rotary as it is a much cleaner and tidier way. Thanks in advance.
Max.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
This one is from the summer of 2008.
I was walking in down town Nicosia with my Speed Graphic and some film holders loaded with x-ray film (cut down from 15x30cm sheets) looking for something interesting to shoot.
Enter a group of teenagers with their skateboards in front of the neoclassical Faneromeni school.
It was late afternoon, so light was getting low. Asked if I could take some pictures of them, and quickly setup the camera pre-focusing on the spot where they were doing their jumps.
For some reason I decided to try stand development on these negatives. First and last time I did that with the Jobo 2509n reel and the 2521 tank. This negative has about 4mm on the long edge (top of the picture) significantly overdeveloped.
Didn't find the processing notes, but at the time I was using mostly Rodinal in dilutions between 1/100 and 1/300. Time must have been between 10 and 20 minutes. The negative is slightly under developed, which makes it a bit thin.
The picture here is a scan (cropped the top out) from a contact print I did a couple days ago on Ilford MG Warmtone RC Pearl.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1564/...0c484acf_b.jpg
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Attachment 144957
Bought some 8x10 Ektascan B/RA, cut it down to 4x5 for some testing, rated at IS0 50, developed in a beseler drum on a motor base in Rodinal for 7mins. @ 1:100 then printed in Palladium on Arches Platine. Its still a bit contrasty but i like it.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
At least the skaters aren't doing "grinds" on classical marble...
Cyprus is a place I'd love to visit someday, in part for what it is now but also to honor the memory of some heroes, i.e. Epiphanius the 4th C bishop.
Captainscot: on my phone the print does not look excessively contrasty to me. I rate Ektascan a stop faster than you do but develop for new cyanotypes and I hope Carbon printing someday using Pyrocat HD but I know a lot of people use 1:100 Rodinal.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Looks great, captainscot!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Fr. Mark,
That is a very good synopsis.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainscot
Attachment 144957
Bought some 8x10 Ektascan B/RA, cut it down to 4x5 for some testing, rated at IS0 50, developed in a beseler drum on a motor base in Rodinal for 7mins. @ 1:100 then printed in Palladium on Arches Platine. Its still a bit contrasty but i like it.
I rate it at 100 except early morning or near sunset. If it is still too contrasty for you try reducing your development time to 5 1/2 or 6 minutes.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Noel
I rate it at 100 except early morning or near sunset. If it is still too contrasty for you try reducing your development time to 5 1/2 or 6 minutes.
I have just started with this film but so far i really like it, it will need some more testing on my part in different scenarios, i will try less development time and maybe a higher dillution as well, but i feel i am getting pretty close...and thank you Andrew for the comment...Mark i tried Pyrocat HD and FP4 for Palladium printing but my UV exposure times were too long so i gave up on it for now but will certainly retry it in the near future.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fr. Mark
Cyprus is a place I'd love to visit someday...
You're the second person to mention visiting Cyprus.
It's a lovely place. Lots of sunshine and blue skies.
But if you do visit, remember that it's a small place.
It's got pretty much everything, from snowy mountains (in the winter/early spring) to deserts and canyons and cliffs and every kind of beach you can imagine. And of course historic sites. But.
Everything here is to scale. There's more subtle beauty, than jaw dropping.
I've never been to the US but I can imagine that standing on top of Half Dome late in the afternoon must be a religious experience.
So, if you're a landscape photographer, keep that in mind so you don't get disappointed.
And if you do visit, let me know.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
" ... I've never been to the US but I can imagine that standing on top of Half Dome late in the afternoon must be a religious experience ... ",
If you think the size of the U.S. is a religious experience for landscape photography, then you should visit Canada.....!!!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan O'Farrell
If you think the size of the U.S. is a religious experience for landscape photography, then you should visit Canada.....!!!
Dan, it's on my list...
First light (as they say in astronomy) for my new/old 5x7" Rittreck View camera which I converted to 18x24cm.
There is nothing like moving up a format size (or two) to get a new perspective over bulk and weight.
Apo Gerogon 300mm
Agfa x-ray film (CP G+) at 100asa.
Tray developed by inspection in Ilford MG 1+100 at 22C for 7.5min.
Scan from negative, finished in PS.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1652/...fa73fcd2_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
If you think the size of the U.S. is a religious experience for landscape photography, then you should visit Canada.....!!!
Yes, how many times does the US fit into Canada? ;)
Nicely done, Thodoris.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
Yes, how many times does the US fit into Canada? ;)
Nicely done, Thodoris.
I'll be closer next month! :-)
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
Yes, how many times does the US fit into Canada? ;)
Thodoris.
1.013 times. (3.855 million mi sq)/(3.806 million mi sq)
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Re: X-ray Film example and comparison.
Does anyone know if it is possible to intensify x ray negatives?
Thanks
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Re: X-ray Film example and comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mollypix
Does anyone know if it is possible to intensify x ray negatives?
Thanks
Do you mean increase contrast? Exposure? Are your negatives too thin? Too dark? Too light? Can you post an example so we can see what you're trying to accomplish?
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Re: X-ray Film example and comparison.
I have no experience with this, but since they're basically just silver negatives, they should intensify just like regular negatives.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
Nicely done, Thodoris.
Thanks Andrew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mollypix
Does anyone know if it is possible to intensify x ray negatives?
Thanks
Have used selenium with Ortho Litho film in the past. It did work, adding density to the highlights in the negative. It resulted in an increase of contrast of about one paper grade in the print. Didn't do an extensive testing though, so it might be possible to push it even further.
Also, if the above is combined with selenium toning the print (adding density to the shadows) it could lead to a total increase of about two paper grades, give or take.
I was thinking of trying negative intensification when printing from some old x-ray negatives a couple weeks ago. They were a bit thin, requiring grade 5 to produce usable prints.
So, if anyone has any experience with it, I too would be very interested in your findings.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Seeking help from the cumulative wisdom of all you LF x-ray users,
For a couple of months now (off-n-on), I've been playing around with 8x10 Ektascan B/RA. I shoot it at EI 80 and process as follows: Jobo 3005 Expert Drum, CPP-2, Rodinal at 1:100 at 68F, speed 4 rotation (same speed I've used for 20 years of developing LF film on my Jobo.) I use 3ml of stock Rodinal per 8x10 sheet to ensure an adequate quantity of developer. For pt/pd printing, I've been developing for 6 1/2 mins, though I think that may be a tad long...haven't decided, yet. Oh, I should probably mention that I'm following my usual procedure of 5 mins pre-soak, develop, 1 min stop, 5 mins fix (rapid fix), wash as usual.
OK, all that said I'm seeing uneven development which is especially easy to see in the tonality of bald, clear blue sky. Any ideas? Maybe I'm spinning the drum too fast? In 20 years of using my Jobo for LF film development, I've never once seen uneven development from any of my Expert Drums.
Thank you.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
That is strange. I haven't developed any Ektascan in my Jobo with an Expert Drum yet, but a friendly person gave me some recently, and so I'll give it a try soon. You might try eliminating the pre-soak. I doubt that X-ray (and similar) films used them, and it's possible that they have wetting agents built into the film that can get washed out with a pre-soak.
How many sheets are you developing at a time?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter J. De Smidt
How many sheets are you developing at a time?
2 - 3 sheets per run so far.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alan9940
Seeking help from the cumulative wisdom of all you LF x-ray users,
For a couple of months now (off-n-on), I've been playing around with 8x10 Ektascan B/RA. I shoot it at EI 80 and process as follows: Jobo 3005 Expert Drum, CPP-2, Rodinal at 1:100 at 68F, speed 4 rotation (same speed I've used for 20 years of developing LF film on my Jobo.) I use 3ml of stock Rodinal per 8x10 sheet to ensure an adequate quantity of developer. For pt/pd printing, I've been developing for 6 1/2 mins, though I think that may be a tad long...haven't decided, yet. Oh, I should probably mention that I'm following my usual procedure of 5 mins pre-soak, develop, 1 min stop, 5 mins fix (rapid fix), wash as usual.
OK, all that said I'm seeing uneven development which is especially easy to see in the tonality of bald, clear blue sky. Any ideas? Maybe I'm spinning the drum too fast? In 20 years of using my Jobo for LF film development, I've never once seen uneven development from any of my Expert Drums.
Thank you.
I've had uneven development using drums on an Ilford motorized base, I had to go back to rolling them by hand. I also went to using 1.5-2ml of developer per sheet, ensuring that I was developing to exhaustion, that seems to give me better control of contrast.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
For anyone interested. Foma have a Mamo single side notched emulsion film. It is called:
MEDIX MAMMO Plus available (only) in 18x24cm and 24x30cm
http://www.foma.cz/produkty-medix-ma...us-detail-1755
I think it is very much the equivalent of the Ektascan BR/A with european dimensions.
The price is very good - 45 EUR+VAT/box of 100 pcs. and is always in stock at Foma distributor from Romania. More info after I have one in my hands.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alan9940
Seeking help from the cumulative wisdom of all you LF x-ray users,
For a couple of months now (off-n-on), I've been playing around with 8x10 Ektascan B/RA. I shoot it at EI 80 and process as follows: Jobo 3005 Expert Drum, CPP-2, Rodinal at 1:100 at 68F, speed 4 rotation (same speed I've used for 20 years of developing LF film on my Jobo.) I use 3ml of stock Rodinal per 8x10 sheet to ensure an adequate quantity of developer. For pt/pd printing, I've been developing for 6 1/2 mins, though I think that may be a tad long...haven't decided, yet. Oh, I should probably mention that I'm following my usual procedure of 5 mins pre-soak, develop, 1 min stop, 5 mins fix (rapid fix), wash as usual.
OK, all that said I'm seeing uneven development which is especially easy to see in the tonality of bald, clear blue sky. Any ideas? Maybe I'm spinning the drum too fast? In 20 years of using my Jobo for LF film development, I've never once seen uneven development from any of my Expert Drums.
Thank you.
I don't pre-soak this film although I do so with others. I develop either in a tray, or a jobo at the absolutely slowest speed possible. Itunr it on and as soon as it begins turning, I leave it there.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stiganas
For anyone interested. Foma have a Mamo single side notched emulsion film. It is called:
MEDIX MAMMO Plus available (only) in 18x24cm and 24x30cm
http://www.foma.cz/produkty-medix-ma...us-detail-1755
I think it is very much the equivalent of the Ektascan BR/A with european dimensions.
The price is very good - 45 EUR+VAT/box of 100 pcs. and is always in stock at Foma distributor from Romania. More info after I have one in my hands.
This is VERY interesting given the difficulties of getting Ektascan BR/A in Europe. I'm going to look into it and see if I can order a box at a reasonable price.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Just a Quick Question I have a box of 8x10 on the way. I am going to cut it to 4x5. What are you folks using to store the film once it is cut? I have no 4x5 film boxes and can't find any 4x5 paper safes online.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I used to cut extra, but I found it bad for me, so I cut and load holders in one sitting.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I don't have a space for a darkroom so I have to do everything in a changing bag and there just isn't room for my trimmer, film holders and the 8x10 box.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Like Randy, I tend to cut as needed and fill holders. I've put the cut pieces in the light proof bags printing printing paper comes in, too. I've also stored it in my 8x10 paper safe as well as film boxes. You could probably make something out of cardboard or black foam core or may board, too.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fr. Mark
Like Randy, I tend to cut as needed and fill holders. I've put the cut pieces in the light proof bags printing printing paper comes in, too. I've also stored it in my 8x10 paper safe as well as film boxes. You could probably make something out of cardboard or black foam core or may board, too.
Thanks all guess I'll just have to try to cobble something together
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fr. Mark
Like Randy, I tend to cut as needed and fill holders. I've put the cut pieces in the light proof bags printing printing paper comes in, too. I've also stored it in my 8x10 paper safe as well as film boxes. You could probably make something out of cardboard or black foam core or may board, too.
Ditto this. I cut & load in one sitting & store the uncut film in the original bag & box inside the shipping box & then keep that in a dark cupboard. It's in my bathroom, which isn't ideal because of temperature & humidity, but that's also my darkroom & I'm using it up fast enough that I'm not worried about it degrading.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
For 4X5 we usually cut 24 sheets at a time and load the holders and the rest goes into a film box. We don't yet have spare film boxes for the WP and 5X7 so just fill the holders for now. My wife does the cutting and I check the fit and load the holders or boxes. I figure if she is going to shoot some of it and I do all the developing she can do the cutting. We are using 8X10 for the 4X5 and 14X17 for the other two sizes.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
For a couple of months now (off-n-on), I've been playing around with 8x10 Ektascan B/RA. I shoot it at EI 80 and process as follows: Jobo 3005 Expert Drum, CPP-2, Rodinal at 1:100 at 68F, speed 4 rotation (same speed I've used for 20 years of developing LF film on my Jobo.) I use 3ml of stock Rodinal per 8x10 sheet to ensure an adequate quantity of developer. For pt/pd printing, I've been developing for 6 1/2 mins, though I think that may be a tad long...haven't decided, yet. Oh, I should probably mention that I'm following my usual procedure of 5 mins pre-soak, develop, 1 min stop, 5 mins fix (rapid fix), wash as usual.
OK, all that said I'm seeing uneven development which is especially easy to see in the tonality of bald, clear blue sky. Any ideas? Maybe I'm spinning the drum too fast? In 20 years of using my Jobo for LF film development, I've never once seen uneven development from any of my Expert Drums.
2 - 3 sheets per run so far.
I use 5ml per sheet... in a tray or BTZS tube for Ektascan and Green Latitude. I never do more than two sheets (one at a time). Then it's discarded. Never had any streaking issues. Perhaps you need to increase your stock solution amount?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
A rotatrim cutter might be easier to use in a changing bag without cutting the bag or other unfortunate events. they are expensive though compared to guillotine cutters. Personally, I'd light tight a room somehow, run a red LED (not close by some of them are so intense they will fog film if close and shined directly on it---guess how I know this...) and just fill the holders while in the room. Its not a bad idea to check individual sheets for fit as you cut anyway. But, as said before, there are ways to make boxes light tight, even aluminum foil if you are clever.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stiganas
For anyone interested. Foma have a Mamo single side notched emulsion film. It is called:
MEDIX MAMMO Plus available (only) in 18x24cm and 24x30cm
http://www.foma.cz/produkty-medix-ma...us-detail-1755
I think it is very much the equivalent of the Ektascan BR/A with european dimensions.
The price is very good - 45 EUR+VAT/box of 100 pcs. and is always in stock at Foma distributor from Romania. More info after I have one in my hands.
Hi Stiganas,
The technical notes (in english) of the czech documentation shown by the above link says that this is a double sided emulsion film.
Am I wrong?
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I got the film. Surprise:
In the box is AGFA MAMORAY HDR-C Plus - Made in in Belgium.
I think it it the same film, made by Agfa or Foma:
Two emulsion technologies working together
MAMORAY HDR-C Plus is a single-sided orthochromatic
mammography film that is part of the Agfa HealthCare
film/screen system for mammography. The film uses
both Split Emulsion Layer (S.E.L.) and the Cubic Crystal
technologies.
Agfa’s Split Emulsion Layer technology provides
the MAMORAY HDR-C Plus film with three emulsion
layers on one side of the film. Each layer consists
of monodispersed Cubic Crystals of identical size.
The other boxes are from FOMA -MEDIX XG - green.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
koraks
This is VERY interesting given the difficulties of getting Ektascan BR/A in Europe. I'm going to look into it and see if I can order a box at a reasonable price.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Ah, so I suppose I might just as well contact Agfa? I tried contacting foma but they haven't responded yet. Sounds like there is a plan B!
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
30 seconds exposure on x-ray film.
Rittreck view with 18x24cm back.
Fujinon W 250 at f32
Scan from negative, finished in PS.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1507/...424772a1_b.jpg
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stiganas
For anyone interested. Foma have a Mamo single side notched emulsion film.
I'd be very interested to see your results.
It doesn't say anything about anti-halation on the pdf though (one of the main attractions of the Ektascan BR/A).
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Premortho asserted that Ektascan BR/A is the only Ortho film on the market that has an anti halation backing. No idea if this is true, but I've not heard of another.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
I have no idea from where I got this antihalation info but it doesn't matter because I have the film in my hands :)
It has antihalation, it is a deep blue dye that come off very easy and the film is safe under a red led. I can't say anything else from the short test I've done except that I didn't like the look of the negative, it reminds me of lithofilm.
Attachment 145760
but this means nothing - it is just one test sheet.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stiganas
I have no idea from where I got this antihalation info but it doesn't matter because I have the film in my hands :)
It has antihalation, it is a deep blue dye that come off very easy and the film is safe under a red led. I can't say anything else from the short test I've done except that I didn't like the look of the negative, it reminds me of lithofilm.
Attachment 145760
but this means nothing - it is just one test sheet.
It seems to be a little under exposed and a lot over developed (at least for what I'm shooting for, for silver printing and scanning.)
I would suggest to dilute your developer quite a bit, to get some control over the density of the highlights.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thodoris Tzalavras
It seems to be a little under exposed and a lot over developed (at least for what I'm shooting for, for silver printing and scanning.)
I would suggest to dilute your developer quite a bit, to get some control over the density of the highlights.
True at both counts - I just want to show the notches on the film. It goes perfect in the 18x24 holder (same size as the normal 8x10 holder just the internal mask smaller)
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
If I didn't say that Ektascan BR/A is the only Orthchromatic film on the market with an anti-halation backing that I know of - - I should have.
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stiganas
I have no idea from where I got this antihalation info but it doesn't matter because I have the film in my hands :)
It has antihalation, it is a deep blue dye that come off very easy and the film is safe under a red led. I can't say anything else from the short test I've done except that I didn't like the look of the negative, it reminds me of lithofilm.
Attachment 145760
but this means nothing - it is just one test sheet.
Yes, that does look like lith film. My xray negs (Fuji double sided) don't look anything like that. A bit high contrast sometimes, but not like that. The developer I use was suggested in one of the first posts here, and that's D23, 1:6 or 1:7 or something. It's very gentle, and if I do it right I can get negs that are really beautiful. I've been saving it and reusing it, but have noticed that it works even better as it gets old and weak, so I'm thinking of doubling the dilution and using it as a one shot, since the cost is really negligible. Developing by inspection means I don't have to let it go past when the development is good, which your neg certainly has, so I certainly recommend you get yourself one of those red LED bulbs people are using so successfully, if you don't already have one:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/more.../attributes/13
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Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mdarnton
Yes, that does look like lith film. My xray negs (Fuji double sided) don't look anything like that. A bit high contrast sometimes, but not like that. The developer I use was suggested in one of the first posts here, and that's D23, 1:6 or 1:7 or something. It's very gentle, and if I do it right I can get negs that are really beautiful. I've been saving it and reusing it, but have noticed that it works even better as it gets old and weak, so I'm thinking of doubling the dilution and using it as a one shot, since the cost is really negligible. Developing by inspection means I don't have to let it go past when the development is good, which your neg certainly has, so I certainly recommend you get yourself one of those red LED bulbs people are using so successfully, if you don't already have one:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/more.../attributes/13
I was just looking at Ansel's The Negative today, at his discussion of D23, and I'm wondering if the reason your D23 gets better and better is because it's picked up some bromide from interacting with the film.
I was also looking at your examples of green x-ray in D23. Very nice. I really liked the violin portrait. Do you still rate it at 80, and run it at 1:6 for 8 minutes? How much agitation do you use? Can you tell me what kind of max density you get with your usual dev time?