Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

I have a couple of questions for those who might have actually done their fixing/washing tests homework:

First question: I notice that it takes less than 10 seconds for xray film to clear in the fix. Given the traditional advice to fix for twice the clearing time, does this mean that 20 seconds in the fix is adequate? Has anyone done any chemical tests to confirm anything about this?

Next question: does the quick fixing imply that the film needs less wash time? Has anyone done any tests to determine the proper washing time for xray film, based on the usual chemical tests?

Finally: what's different about xray film that it fixes so quickly? It appears, by the density, that it might have more, not less silver than conventional films, so it would seem that the opposite might happen: slower fixing.

Thanks for any answers.....

Might depend on fixer. I also notice very fast clear times with TF-5 and it seems to last a very long time.

Michael, there is a fix from Tetenal called Super Fix plus; it fixes normal film in 20 to 30 seconds, too, but Tetenal says 2 or 3 minutes.

Fixing a film until he is clear means, that the not exposed bromsilver is removed, and this can happen fast.
But this process brings new chemical connections; they must be removed, too, so I believe in Tetenal's 2 (or 3, I'm not sure) minutes.

Otherwise I have found, that old thin layer film fixes fast, too, but fixing more than 5 minutes destroyed the image in my negatives.

Ritchie

That's interesting. I've been fixing for about two minutes, in spite of the clearing time. Maybe I should give a bit more.

Also, I was wondering if it would wash faster, both since it clears quickly, and also is in the fix less time. Not that this matters, because I wash with changes and over-wash even by that plan, since it's so easy.

It was made for use in automatic processors which zip along, Inthink a friend said either 2 or 4 minutes insert to developed, fixed, dried. But this is hearsay.

Has anyone tried processing Ektascan in XTOL? If so, what was your process and how well did it work for you?

I think the quick fixing times are because the emulsion swells very readily, unlike the somewhat harder emulsions on regular films. Also, I think the emulsion is one layer (per side) only and the physical structure of the grains may have something to do with it as well. Either way, since the emulsiom absorbs fluids so readily, I suspect that washing times don't need to be very long either. I usually fix for one to two minutes, then rinse the film thoroughly under a ranking tap and finally let it soak for 5 to 10 minutes in water with a bit of photoflo. I doubt the longevity of my negatives, but it doesn't worry me too much, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by mdarnton

That's interesting. I've been fixing for about two minutes, in spite of the clearing time. Maybe I should give a bit more.

Also, I was wondering if it would wash faster, both since it clears quickly, and also is in the fix less time. Not that this matters, because I wash with changes and over-wash even by that plan, since it's so easy.

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You can't really wash "faster". Washing is a soaking out process, so speeding up the water flow has little if any effect.

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Originally Posted by plaubel

...Otherwise I have found, that old thin layer film fixes fast, too, but fixing more than 5 minutes destroyed the image in my negatives. Ritchie

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I have a box of 14x17 Agfa X-ray (old and fogged) that I fix-out to use as support material for making carbon tissue. Perhaps I am over-fixing it, as the emulsion on both sides comes off under any pressure. Is that what you mean by your image being destroyed?

mdarnton: Some photo material, and depending on how they are processed, do wash faster than others. But I think you would see the greatest effect of that with fiber base photo paper, with the paper base soaking up fixer. Since the film base does not soak up any chemicals, wash times are much shorter - with unhardened gelatin emulsions probably washing a little faster than hardened emulsions, but as you said, probably not significant in the normal over-washing we tend to do.

QUOTE=Vaughn;1318443]I have a box of 14x17 Agfa X-ray (old and fogged) that I fix-out to use as support material for making carbon tissue. Perhaps I am over-fixing it, as the emulsion on both sides comes off under any pressure. Is that what you mean by your image being destroyed?
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No, I meant a kind of bleaching - if I remember right, it has been long ago.
But I can remember the not desired results, and the following better results after fixing short.
A friend of me gave me the tip of shortening the fixing time depending on the thin layer film.