Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael R
Fair enough. Apologies for my strident post. I just really, really don’t understand why anyone would use large format x-ray film, especially double-sided x-ray film (unless of course they are using it specifically for its inherent characteristics/properties, in which case I have no argument against it).
Some of us are interested in experimenting, some can’t afford the cost of a box of ilford 8x10 or the like and shoot as much as we like. 500 sheets of X-ray is about the same as 1 box of 25 sheets of ilford fp4. Not to mention the high contrast of x-ray works beautifully with alternative processes and also has a different look than modern film. Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian Bullen
Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.
The reasons you mentioned are certainly valid. And given the time and effort I put into trying to make x-ray film work for me, rest assured that I know from first-hand experience how they work and what the appeal of the material is - I recognize everything you said (well, almost)!
But...I see many people who are experimenting with this kind of film in the apparent expectation that it's a substitute for regular photographic film. But it really isn't. In its tonal reproduction, it is fundamentally *impossible* to make x-ray film do the same thing as even a low-cost, archaic-technology film like Fomapan 100. Anyone on that path may find themselves spending a lot of time, and ultimately also quite a bit of money, on something that just will never do what they hope it will do.
And yes, they may end up with something they like nonetheless and be content with that. On the other hand, I'm sure that several people who posted in this thread and even more who've read (parts of) it ultimately turned away from x-ray film in mild disappointment and either moved on to regular film, or just abandoned the format they intended to shoot on altogether.
So while I respect and agree with your view, I do feel that whenever someone who is new to the trade expresses interest in x-ray film, someone should give them a fair warning of what they should NOT expect from it. Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm plenty stubborn enough to have tried it anyway (I would!), I sure would have appreciated it if the many blogs and posts that waxed lyrical about this nearly-free alternative to real film would have been a bit more nuanced.
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing
I shoot all kinds of film
I really like ancient film as I love to experiment
My oldest glass plates give me great joy, I think the plates are 125 years old and still work!
Many here are NOT DAMN EXPERTS and don't give a shit what the self proclaimed experts say
WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...95795724_z.jpgGlass Plate Box by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tin Can
NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing
[...]
WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf
Nobody said anyone promised anything.
And so what who considers whom esteemed and whether people, esteemed or otherwise, post images?
Why the aggravation? I just expressed my opinion and experience. Apparently you don't like it; that says something about you, not about what I said.
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
no problem
some of us like X-Ray
you don't
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Understood. Enjoyment is ultimately what this is about and that is a valid enough reason to try/use x-ray film. It also makes sense if the specific characteristics of x-ray films are what one is after.
On the other hand, if the motivation is simply to circumvent the cost of large format film some criticism is healthy. It is a misguided pursuit. If the cost of large format film is prohibitive the photographer would be far better off using medium format film (whether on a large or medium format camera) than with x-ray sheet film. The other point is that if one is nevertheless determined to experiment with x-ray film in an attempt to save money, despite insurmountable differences in spectral sensitization etc., at the very least more appropriate processing should be considered. Things like dilute general purpose developers, reduced agitation/stand etc. just aren’t going to do much of anything to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian Bullen
Some of us are interested in experimenting, some can’t afford the cost of a box of ilford 8x10 or the like and shoot as much as we like. 500 sheets of X-ray is about the same as 1 box of 25 sheets of ilford fp4. Not to mention the high contrast of x-ray works beautifully with alternative processes and also has a different look than modern film. Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Perhaps experts worry X-Ray will dilute real film usage
Our oldest member prefers Orthochromatic, for several reasons
He has been using it since the 1930's
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
No, it's not a sub for regular films...but neither is Ilford Ortho, or those Lane glass plates. They stand on their own for what they are and what they can do. I simply use xray film for it's orthochromatic characteristics. It's lovely that I can get it in 14x17...for cheap! It makes great alt prints. I prefer double-sided green. Also, my senior photo students use it in their big box pinhole cameras! :D
Re: Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images
Koraks and Michael R, it’s true that x-ray film is not a substitute for panchromatic film. We might be coming at this from different perspectives, I have been shooting with film since the 80’s and although that’s not as long as others here it’s a fair amount of time. Everything from 11x14 on down so I knew what I was getting into with x-ray. People who are newer to large format or film photography in general might not understand the differences, it does seem that most forums and blogs clearly state that it’s orthochromatic, scratches easily, double sided and more contrasty. I chose X-ray in 8x10 and larger for several reasons, I love the look but I love the price even more. I can afford regular film and shoot that as well, especially in smaller formats. If someone can not afford a box of 25sheets of ilford or tmax but would like to try large format I would totally recommend $40 for 100 sheets of film, I would also suggest they do their research. As far as standard developers diluted or otherwise is perfectly fine, any developer chosen can work and work well, that’s why people should learn and experiment to find what works best for them. I’ve used coffee, d-76, pyrocat and others all with great results and I’m happy I did.
Is it the right choice for everyone, no way! Is it ok to try new things, learn and grow, hell yes. Let everyone decide their own path. Discouragement is not a productive way forward.
