Jobo CPP2 Motor Malfunction

Hello all.
I've tried searching the forum to find solutions to my problem, but my search turned up 164 pages of results, none of which I have found a solution.
I have a JOBO CPP2 processor. All things work on it aside from the motor. It worked up until a little while back. I put on a 2000-series tank with fluid in it, it spun a few times and then stopped completely.
I read through manuals and repair guides and decided I should have a look at fuses... I opened up the unit and found the motor fuse blown. I changed the fuse, plugged it in and the fuse blew instantly.
I called Catlabs and someone over there said it could be the two motor "DC regulators" on the board. I'm forgetting if they said "DC regulators" or "DC" something else. I could not find any reference to any "DC" motor... in the manual or repair guide.
Have any of you had an issue like this? If so, did you figure it out? I've heard folks say to hook the motor up to an power supply to test it out, but I wouldn't know how to do so safely. Any thoughts?
Curiously,
Jim

I don't know how to correct your problem, but it sounds as if you overloaded the motor, which then burned out. Ifit was the original motor, i am pretty sure that's your main problem. Why the fuse blew after changing is another problem. Two alternatives: 1) find a small motor repair person and take it to them, 2) have the motor rewound.

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Originally Posted by Jim Noel

I don't know how to correct your problem, but it sounds as if you overloaded the motor, which then burned out. Ifit was the original motor, i am pretty sure that's your main problem. Why the fuse blew after changing is another problem. Two alternatives: 1) find a small motor repair person and take it to them, 2) have the motor rewound.

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I had my motor fail. I searched eBay and purchased a 12v reversible motor from China that was a straight swap it only cost £12. Can not recall who I bought it off but you will find hundreds if you search.

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Originally Posted by GoodOldNorm

I had my motor fail. I searched eBay and purchased a 12v reversible motor from China that was a straight swap it only cost £12. Can not recall who I bought it off but you will find hundreds if you search.

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I've heard Jobo motors are just surplus German Car windshield wiper motors, so it probably is possible to find a new one with the same specs for little money.

Any thoughts on how I can figure out if my motor is in fact dead? The folks at Catlabs said it is VERY unlikely that the motor would go on this unit. Again, they said it would most likely be some sort of DC motor regulator on the board. I have no idea where these would be.

It is a 24v motor not 12v as I posted previously, the original motors were Bosch windscreen wiper motors. The purple wire + positive the orange wire - negative.the motor I purchased was 37mm 24v DC 60rpm replacement torque gear box motor from. EBay user xyfs-us

Great info!

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Originally Posted by GoodOldNorm

It is a 24v motor not 12v as I posted previously, the original motors were Bosch windscreen wiper motors. The purple wire + positive the orange wire - negative.the motor I purchased was 37mm 24v DC 60rpm replacement torque gear box motor from. EBay user xyfs-us

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does anyone know if this fits other (CPA2) Jobo units?

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Originally Posted by GoodOldNorm

It is a 24v motor not 12v as I posted previously, the original motors were Bosch windscreen wiper motors. The purple wire + positive the orange wire - negative.the motor I purchased was 37mm 24v DC 60rpm replacement torque gear box motor from. EBay user xyfs-us

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The motor describe above doesn’t look like it would be a straight swap for my CPP2.
Curious to how you got that fitted. Did you canablize the motor and use just the guts?
The open cpp2 that I checked was a later one with an upgraded motor, maybe the first gen cpp2 might accept that motor more easily.

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Originally Posted by mikey1two

The motor describe above doesn’t look like it would be a straight swap for my CPP2.
Curious to how you got that fitted. Did you canablize the motor and use just the guts?
The open cpp2 that I checked was a later one with an upgraded motor, maybe the first gen cpp2 might accept that motor more easily.

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not at home at the moment but i will upload some pics next week

The motor I installed was a 37mm 24v DC 60rpm replacement high torque motor from ebay seller Xyfs-us see pic. I had to fit a motor shaft coupler to extend the shaft and make some spacers to fit between the motor and the jobo case. This is a cpe 2 not a cpp2 apologies for my confusion I thought the cpp2 was just an upgrade with better temp. control. The cpp2 has a far bigger and more powerful motor it looks like a wiper motor from a truck.

I think I see what’s going on. According to Jobos website there were motor upgrades throughout its production. I’m assuming you have either the beginning production model or the 1st upgrade model. Curious to know which one you have as the motor on my functional CPP2 (1st upgrade) is getting pretty sluggish turning my expert 3006.

Pictures is the motor from my non-functional CPP2 (2nd upgrade)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...29CF16F4AF.png

*from Jobo’s website

Introduction

Newer systems, like the 3000 series EXPERT Drums, require increased strength in the rotation motor circuit. This extra load can make the rotation speed of the tank or drum sluggish or make it seem to struggle with heavier loads. The 3000 series EXPERT Drums create the heaviest possible load for the rotation motor circuit.

Beginning production of the CPP and CPA had a single-bearing rotation motor.
CPP Serial # ARXXXX - 10593
CPA Serial # ARXXXX - 10312

1st Upgrade: The single-bearing rotation motor was replaced by a double-bearing rotation motor.
CPP Serial # 10594 - 20455
CPA Serial # 10313 - 13309

2nd Upgrade: The rotation motor circuit was strengthened to accommodate larger loads, that is, 3000 series EXPERT Drums.
CPP Serial # 20456 - 21999
CPA Serial # 13310 - 21999

3rd Upgrade: A stronger rotation motor (the same as in the ATLs) was introduced and the rotation-motor circuit was strengthened to accommodate the new motor.
CPP Serial # 22000 - present
CPA Serial # 22000 - present

Attachment 196533Hey all.
I've researched this problem thoroughly and tested just about everything including my patience and willpower. Basically I'm at the point where I think the DC transformer isn't functioning properly. Does anyone know a good way of testing this transformer AND where I can find a replacement?
Thank you so much for any help. I'm at my wits-end.
Hopefully,
Jim Korpi

My CPP2 has the 2nd upgrade, it's still working, even turning Expert tanks. Long story short I have a CPP3 on order from Catlabs. All the old stuff has obsolete electronic components. The switches are getting old, I replaced the rotation switch on mine. I got the part from Catlabs, it's not a factory part because those are long gone.

I bought my CPP2 used, it's been used professionally before I got it. I'm glad Jobo is still around, I feel it's important to support the industry. This is part of my retirement gift to myself. If it lasts as long as my current unit has, I'm good to 93!!

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Attachment 196533Hey all.
I've researched this problem thoroughly and tested just about everything including my patience and willpower. Basically I'm at the point where I think the DC transformer isn't functioning properly. Does anyone know a good way of testing this transformer AND where I can find a replacement?
Thank you so much for any help. I'm at my wits-end.
Hopefully,
Jim Korpi

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Jim, You should be able to test the transformer with a multimeter.....very carefully as the input (115VAC), the primary (20VAC-1.6A) and secondary (10VAC-0.4A) outputs are marked.

If you wire up the inputs, your meter should measure the outputs....just be very careful with the live inputs.

Normally when a transformer fails, it's evident through overheating and damage.

Mike

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Originally Posted by mpirie

Jim, You should be able to test the transformer with a multimeter.....very carefully as the input (115VAC), the primary (20VAC-1.6A) and secondary (10VAC-0.4A) outputs are marked.

If you wire up the inputs, your meter should measure the outputs....just be very careful with the live inputs.

Normally when a transformer fails, it's evident through overheating and damage.

Mike

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Mike,
Thanks a bunch for these thoughts. I'll try it today and let you know how it goes. I have tested the resistance on the primary and secondary and everything seems fine. Also there does not seem to be any physical evidence of overheating of damage.
If this does test fine, and I put it back in, do you have any thoughts on why when I turn the motor switch on the motor doesn't move and then the motor fuse heats up and continues to blow? As I said in earlier posts, I've replaced the two rectifiers, thinking it could be those... But it didn't solve the issue.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Jim

Jim,

If you keep blowing fuses when you turn the motor on, then the motor may be seized (or there may be a short in the power supply to the motor).

If you can't turn the motor by hand, then you'll need to remove the motor and replace or dismantle it to find out why it won't turn.

I suggest removing the motor (i assume it's the tank-turning motor and not the water pump motor) and taking the cover off of the gearbox to see if there is anything stopping the motor.

Once you have the motor out and disconnected, your meter should be able to tell you if the motor supply is good (and therefore the problem lies elsewhere). Remember to check the reverse switch too.

Mike

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Originally Posted by mpirie

Jim,

If you keep blowing fuses when you turn the motor on, then the motor may be seized (or there may be a short in the power supply to the motor).

If you can't turn the motor by hand, then you'll need to remove the motor and replace or dismantle it to find out why it won't turn.

I suggest removing the motor (i assume it's the tank-turning motor and not the water pump motor) and taking the cover off of the gearbox to see if there is anything stopping the motor.

Once you have the motor out and disconnected, your meter should be able to tell you if the motor supply is good (and therefore the problem lies elsewhere). Remember to check the reverse switch too.

Mike

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Mike,
Just curious, can I hard wire the transformer to a power cord and just plug it in to get a reading of the output? I'm just curious because the power coming out of my wall socket has a reading of 133v while the transformer says 115v on it, so I wasn't sure if I would fry something...
Curiously,
Jim

Hi Jim, If you're in the US, then your nominal mains voltage is 110VAC.

I would avoid hard-wiring the transformer to the mains as there may be line conditioners etc cleaning the supply before it reaches the transformer.

Changing the wiring may lead you down the wrong track, so best keep the wiring as designed by Jobo and fault trace from there.

Again, be careful......if you are unsure, don't mess about with this stuff, it can kill you.

Mike

I had the same problem 20+ years ago. I removed the motor and took it to a small electric repair shop where it was rewound. It never failed as long as I had the unit. Suchsmall repair places are probably more difficult to locate today,but they can be a valuable resource.

Indeed Jim, I saw a stalling motion from the motor on my CPA2 late last week and decided to bite the bullet and remove it to see if i could delay the inevitable.

I removed the motor completely and cleaned out both the gearbox and motor using automotive brake cleaner. Then i lubricated the motor brushes and commutator with electrical contact cleaner. I cleaned all the old grease out of the gearbox and replaced it with white grease, then reassembled it.

So far, things seem to be good, the stalling has gone, so here's hoping.

Mike

Mike that is probably the most informative message in this thread. Thank you.

Thanks Jim.

FYI, it's a 24 volt DC motor with a worm gear driving a single large reduction gear for the output shaft.

It "looks" like a windscreen wiper motor. If push comes to shove, i'll try a used motor from a scrapyard.

Mike

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Originally Posted by mpirie

Hi Jim, If you're in the US, then your nominal mains voltage is 110VAC.

I would avoid hard-wiring the transformer to the mains as there may be line conditioners etc cleaning the supply before it reaches the transformer.

Changing the wiring may lead you down the wrong track, so best keep the wiring as designed by Jobo and fault trace from there.

Again, be careful......if you are unsure, don't mess about with this stuff, it can kill you.

Mike

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Hey Mike.
So I've put my transformer back in the unit after it seemed to test fine. I then hooked everything back up, except I unplugged the motor from the motor board before turning the power on to the unit. I then turned the unit on and then then the motor switch. The motor fuse blew again. I figured that because I removed the motor wires from the motor board the problem can't be the motor itself but something down the line.
I tested the switch that makes the motor go one way and then the other and it seemed fine. There is not much to it. Do you think the problem could lie in the motor switch/dial itself, the one that goes from 0-7? If so, how would I diagnose that? I'm running out of gumption here.
Curiously,
Jim Korpi

H Jim, So if the unit behaved with the motor disconnected then blew a fuse when you reconnected the motor, then to me, that points to the motor causing a short.

If you can get the motor out and open the gearbox to remove the reduction gear, you should be able to turn the motor shaft worm-gear by hand. If you can't turn the shaft, then the motor's seized.

Before you remove the motor, make sure it's disconnected from the two spade terminals and try your ohm-meter across the motor green and black cables. there should be a small resistance. If there is no resistance, then you have a short in the motor. If you have a very high resistance, you have an open circuit and the motor's goosed.

Regards,
Mike

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Hey Mike.
So I've put my transformer back in the unit after it seemed to test fine. I then hooked everything back up, except I unplugged the motor from the motor board before turning the power on to the unit. I then turned the unit on and then then the motor switch. The motor fuse blew again. I figured that because I removed the motor wires from the motor board the problem can't be the motor itself but something down the line.
I tested the switch that makes the motor go one way and then the other and it seemed fine. There is not much to it. Do you think the problem could lie in the motor switch/dial itself, the one that goes from 0-7? If so, how would I diagnose that? I'm running out of gumption here.
Curiously,
Jim Korpi

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So you unplugged the motor from the MOTHERBOARD? I took electronics in 9th grade, so consider that before you take my advice. It's a DC motor, so I am assuming that the 0 to 7 switch is a "dimmer" . If the speed switch is working it should show variable resistance, I would think. If the motor is unplugged it shouldn't be the motor. Some how you need to get 24V (or less) DC to the motor without anything else in the way to see if it turns. My first thought was 16 AA cells lined end to end, but only I'm that crazy. You can do anything as long as you keep line voltage OUT of the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if a 9V transistor battery wouldn't move the motor slightly under no load.
That speed switch should dim a test light, and should show a change in Ohms as you turn it. If it's shorted, i.e. conducting electric current without any effect that could be your problem.

Remember my training consisted of building a tachometer for my '65 Chevy Biscayne with a 230 cu in 6 cylinder. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Duolab123

So you unplugged the motor from the MOTHERBOARD? I took electronics in 9th grade, so consider that before you take my advice. It's a DC motor, so I am assuming that the 0 to 7 switch is a "dimmer" . If the speed switch is working it should show variable resistance, I would think. If the motor is unplugged it shouldn't be the motor. Some how you need to get 24V (or less) DC to the motor without anything else in the way to see if it turns. My first thought was 16 AA cells lined end to end, but only I'm that crazy. You can do anything as long as you keep line voltage OUT of the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if a 9V transistor battery wouldn't move the motor slightly under no load.
That speed switch should dim a test light, and should show a change in Ohms as you turn it. If it's shorted, i.e. conducting electric current without any effect that could be your problem.

Remember my training consisted of building a tachometer for my '65 Chevy Biscayne with a 230 cu in 6 cylinder. :rolleyes:

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Hey.
Great response. Thanks for your thoughts.
So, I have unhooked the motor from the motor board and then powered up the unit. The fuse still blew without the motor hooked up, so that tells me it's not the motor. I hooked the motor up to a variable DC power unit and was able to give the motor the exact DC power required to turn the motor, and VIOLA! It turned. So the motor seems good to go. I must say, the motor is hard to turn by hand. I can turn it, but it takes some umf!
My next step is taking the speed switch out and testing it. I'm not sure how to hook it up to a light or what I should do to test it, but I'm sure I'll find some video on the world wide web.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
Jim

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Originally Posted by mpirie

H Jim, So if the unit behaved with the motor disconnected then blew a fuse when you reconnected the motor, then to me, that points to the motor causing a short.

If you can get the motor out and open the gearbox to remove the reduction gear, you should be able to turn the motor shaft worm-gear by hand. If you can't turn the shaft, then the motor's seized.

Before you remove the motor, make sure it's disconnected from the two spade terminals and try your ohm-meter across the motor green and black cables. there should be a small resistance. If there is no resistance, then you have a short in the motor. If you have a very high resistance, you have an open circuit and the motor's goosed.

Regards,
Mike

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Mike,
The fuse blew when the motor was unplugged from the board.
I had unhooked the motor from the motor board and then powered up the unit. The fuse still blew without the motor hooked up, so that tells me it's not the motor. I hooked the motor up to a variable DC power unit and was able to give the motor the exact DC power required to turn the motor, and VIOLA! It turned. So the motor seems good to go. I must say, the motor is hard to turn by hand. I can turn it, but it takes some umf!
My next step is taking the speed switch out and testing it.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
Jim

Ah, ok Jim, i read your post wrong.

As Duolab says, the speed knob is just a dimmer, allowing more or less current to the motor to change it's speed, though it also has a switch so that the motor can be turned off completely.

Blowing fuses is a sign of a short. First place to start is to make sure all the wires are in the correct places....hard to do when we can't get a circuit diagram. Did you check the heating element for resistance/short?

Mike

They probably said "DC Rectifier". These would be a couple (or 4, depending on the transformer wiring) of diodes (or a single package of diodes) that rectify the AC from the transformer into DC for the motor/speed control. You'll probably find these at the output of the transformer along with a couple of capacitors. And yes, if one or more of these are shorted then you'll get a blown fuse.

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Hey.
Great response. Thanks for your thoughts.
So, I have unhooked the motor from the motor board and then powered up the unit. The fuse still blew without the motor hooked up, so that tells me it's not the motor. I hooked the motor up to a variable DC power unit and was able to give the motor the exact DC power required to turn the motor, and VIOLA! It turned. So the motor seems good to go. I must say, the motor is hard to turn by hand. I can turn it, but it takes some umf!
My next step is taking the speed switch out and testing it. I'm not sure how to hook it up to a light or what I should do to test it, but I'm sure I'll find some video on the world wide web.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
Jim

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If you can hook up your separate DC power supply through the switch it should regulate the speed of the motor. I have a suspicion it's something on the 110V side that's blowing the fuse.

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Originally Posted by Duolab123

If you can hook up your separate DC power supply through the switch it should regulate the speed of the motor. I have a suspicion it's something on the 110V side that's blowing the fuse.

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So I bypassed the other boards and powered up the motor board independent of the other two switch boards, and the motor spun just fine without blowing the fuse. So there must be some issue coming from the other boards. Any tips to finding an issue with the switch or the board the switch is on?

Thanks,
Jim

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Originally Posted by mpirie

Ah, ok Jim, i read your post wrong.

As Duolab says, the speed knob is just a dimmer, allowing more or less current to the motor to change it's speed, though it also has a switch so that the motor can be turned off completely.

Blowing fuses is a sign of a short. First place to start is to make sure all the wires are in the correct places....hard to do when we can't get a circuit diagram. Did you check the heating element for resistance/short?

Mike

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Hey Mike.
So I brought power to the motor board independent of the switch board... and the motor ran just fine without blowing a fuse. So there must be a short coming from the switch boards. I'm not sure how to test the heating element for resistance or a short. The heating side of things seems to work just fine. Any thoughts on where to check on the switch board for shorts...?
Curiously,
Jim

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Hey Mike.
So I brought power to the motor board independent of the switch board... and the motor ran just fine without blowing a fuse. So there must be a short coming from the switch boards. I'm not sure how to test the heating element for resistance or a short. The heating side of things seems to work just fine. Any thoughts on where to check on the switch board for shorts...?
Curiously,
Jim

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To measure resistance for shorts, etc. get yourself a cheap DVM (digital volt meter). It'll cost you $10 (or more) and will measure voltage, resistance and current among other things. To check the heater for a short, unplug/detach the element from its control board. Measure the resistance across the two leads. Ohms law (R=V**2/P) tells you that for a 1000W element rated for operation at 120 volts the resistance should be ~15 ohms. For a 500 watt element ~30ohms.

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Hey Mike.
So I brought power to the motor board independent of the switch board... and the motor ran just fine without blowing a fuse. So there must be a short coming from the switch boards. I'm not sure how to test the heating element for resistance or a short. The heating side of things seems to work just fine. Any thoughts on where to check on the switch board for shorts...?
Curiously,
Jim

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If the heater is working fine, pump running display lighting up. The motor is running. Next step is try to investigate the speed switch. The speed switch clicks on then is smooth like a dimmer. I would look at the speed switch. Could it be switching 110V AC to the motor board, and separately be varying the voltage to the motor??

Get a decent multi-meter, I have one, digital readout that I bought for 25-30 bucks. Look down steam of the fuse something is going to the ground, sending so much current through the fuse that the filament goes puff. That fuse is saving the board. Is the fuse on line voltage or 24V DC? If you could narrow it down Catlabs can probably provide you with a part. I replaced the speed switch in mine several years back, mine just broke. Omer Hecht CatLABS supplied me with a not OEM switch, because the original was unavailable, was a bit of a challenge for me. You need to just keep looking or try to find a old school radio and TV repair kind of person. These machines are antique, even if you know exactly what is wrong the component may not be available. Don't give up.

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Originally Posted by Duolab123

If the heater is working fine, pump running display lighting up. The motor is running. Next step is try to investigate the speed switch. The speed switch clicks on then is smooth like a dimmer. I would look at the speed switch. Could it be switching 110V AC to the motor board, and separately be varying the voltage to the motor??

Get a decent multi-meter, I have one, digital readout that I bought for 25-30 bucks. Look down steam of the fuse something is going to the ground, sending so much current through the fuse that the filament goes puff. That fuse is saving the board. Is the fuse on line voltage or 24V DC? If you could narrow it down Catlabs can probably provide you with a part. I replaced the speed switch in mine several years back, mine just broke. Omer Hecht CatLABS supplied me with a not OEM switch, because the original was unavailable, was a bit of a challenge for me. You need to just keep looking or try to find a old school radio and TV repair kind of person. These machines are antique, even if you know exactly what is wrong the component may not be available. Don't give up.

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Duolab, thanks for the encouragement and thoughts.
I just started really investigating the switch board itself. I've attached a schematic of the board. Basically I checked the resistors and capacitors around the switch to see if they were up to snuff. It seems they are. I'm learning a heck of a lot about electronics with this machine. I'm trying to tell my wife that she needs to think of this as a cheap electronics class. That's how I'm staying sane. Sort of. Thanks for the "don't give up", because after last night of removing resistors and testing them I almost said, "FORGET IT!!!" But I have about 25 rolls of 120 film I refuse to send in the mail to have someone send them back with fingerprints all over them and signs of weak chemistry.

So...the switch is something I feel like must have something to do with this issue. I've tested everything down the line and tried to test the switch, but I really don't know the best way to do this. If you've replaced your switch you know what I'm dealing with. I could send a photo of it as well...

Thanks again for your thoughts. I'll get this if it kills me...Attachment 197202

I doubt it is any of the switches TBH. Looking at the CPP2, the switches are: main power on/off, pump on/off, speed control with on/off. If any of the switches had shorted, then the controlled item (power, pump, motor) would come on and not switch off.

Something is creating a short that is allowing more current to be drawn from the supply side than the fuse can/should handle. Semi-conductors like the power transistors rarely short as they'd explode, hence the question about the heater element. As far as I can see, only the motor, the switching relay or the heater element can draw enough current to blow a fuse.....or the wiring has been changed and introduced a short.

Mike

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Originally Posted by mpirie

I doubt it is any of the switches TBH. Looking at the CPP2, the switches are: main power on/off, pump on/off, speed control with on/off. If any of the switches had shorted, then the controlled item (power, pump, motor) would come on and not switch off.

Something is creating a short that is allowing more current to be drawn from the supply side than the fuse can/should handle. Semi-conductors like the power transistors rarely short as they'd explode, hence the question about the heater element. As far as I can see, only the motor, the switching relay or the heater element can draw enough current to blow a fuse.....or the wiring has been changed and introduced a short.

Mike

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Could the heater be "leaking" current somehow, or pulling too much current that when the motor starts up it takes it over the limit? I'm sure Omer Hecht at Catlabs could fix it if he had the parts. But where's the challenge in paying a professional when this is so much fun :o

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Duolab, thanks for the encouragement and thoughts.
I just started really investigating the switch board itself. I've attached a schematic of the board. Basically I checked the resistors and capacitors around the switch to see if they were up to snuff. It seems they are. I'm learning a heck of a lot about electronics with this machine. I'm trying to tell my wife that she needs to think of this as a cheap electronics class. That's how I'm staying sane. Sort of. Thanks for the "don't give up", because after last night of removing resistors and testing them I almost said, "FORGET IT!!!" But I have about 25 rolls of 120 film I refuse to send in the mail to have someone send them back with fingerprints all over them and signs of weak chemistry.

So...the switch is something I feel like must have something to do with this issue. I've tested everything down the line and tried to test the switch, but I really don't know the best way to do this. If you've replaced your switch you know what I'm dealing with. I could send a photo of it as well...

Thanks again for your thoughts. I'll get this if it kills me...Attachment 197202

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The last revision to that drawing is in 1983. As long as it's just individual components there's hope. I would try over on Photrio formerly APUG as well. WITHOUT THE MOTOR DOES THE PUMP RUN AND DOES THE HEATER MAINTAIN A CONSTANT TEMP, LIKE 38C? If the heater is overheating or not heating could be another thing entirely.

You can disconnect the motor and check the heater element raises the water temp. Pull the green and black spade terminals from the main board.

You can also isolate the heating element (but more carefully, as they will be mains voltage) and leave the motor connected to see if the motor runs.

If you get a result in either test, you will then be able to narrow down what is causing the excessive current draw that blows the fuse.

Another thought just came to me. If the fuse you've fitted blows quickly, then you could try an "anti-surge" fuse of the same value in its place. "AS" fuses have what looks like a coiled spring inside which can tolerate a slightly higher current draw at startup, thus avoiding the current surge to get things like motors started, but still provide the same level of fuse protection.

Mike

This may be a little late to ask. Are you sure you have the right amperage fuse?

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Originally Posted by Duolab123

This may be a little late to ask. Are you sure you have the right amperage fuse?

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Looks like the drawing calls for a 6.3 A fuse?? I'm not sure that's what it is it looks like it's right before the power switch. Again? ??

This is no help whatsoever but your problem reminds me of a friend of mine who could not figure out a problem with a short on his car. He resorted to putting a nail across the fuse and watched for the smoke. He found the fault to be a short in the wiring harness where the tailgate hinged onto the car. He got to the point were he was so frustrated that he did not care anymore if the car burst into flames and was totally destroyed. Hope you have the patience to sort out your problem, have you checked the bridge rectifier that changes the current from 110v to 24v ?

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Originally Posted by GoodOldNorm

This is no help whatsoever but your problem reminds me of a friend of mine who could not figure out a problem with a short on his car. He resorted to putting a nail across the fuse and watched for the smoke. He found the fault to be a short in the wiring harness where the tailgate hinged onto the car. He got to the point were he was so frustrated that he did not care anymore if the car burst into flames and was totally destroyed. Hope you have the patience to sort out your problem, have you checked the bridge rectifier that changes the current from 110v to 24v ?

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Good Old Norm.
This is hilarious and poignant. I was looking at the boards of this machine with a electrical genius the other day and he said to me, "You can hook power to just this and see if it melts. That will tell you if it's gone." I looked at him startled. Here is a guy who 10 minutes earlier spoke a form of electrical language that sounded a bit like Mandarin, and now he's talking my language, that of the country people more comfortable with a screw drive on a carb than a soldering iron on a circuit board.

None the less, I took my desoldering gun to about everything on the motor switch board and tested it all with a multimeter. Everything I touched seemed good as gold. I then realized the wiring harness between the two switch boards had broken free from one switch board and a few wires were broken off the other. After desoldering and cleaning up the mess, I rebuilt the wiring harness, put things back together and plugged the son-of-a... in. VIOLA! Motor spun. No smoke, no melting, no blown fuse. I'm back up and running.

Lesson to those reading this; If you run into something you know little about, press on! Learn the language. Learn from your lack of understanding. Remember the words the great thinker/writer Wendell Berry said, "Do something today that doesn't add up."

Duolab,
Yep. The right fuse. If I found that to be the issue at this point I would have surely walked into a river with stones in my pockets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Good Old Norm.
This is hilarious and poignant. I was looking at the boards of this machine with a electrical genius the other day and he said to me, "You can hook power to just this and see if it melts. That will tell you if it's gone." I looked at him startled. Here is a guy who 10 minutes earlier spoke a form of electrical language that sounded a bit like Mandarin, and now he's talking my language, that of the country people more comfortable with a screw drive on a carb than a soldering iron on a circuit board.

None the less, I took my desoldering gun to about everything on the motor switch board and tested it all with a multimeter. Everything I touched seemed good as gold. I then realized the wiring harness between the two switch boards had broken free from one switch board and a few wires were broken off the other. After desoldering and cleaning up the mess, I rebuilt the wiring harness, put things back together and plugged the son-of-a... in. VIOLA! Motor spun. No smoke, no melting, no blown fuse. I'm back up and running.

Lesson to those reading this; If you run into something you know little about, press on! Learn the language. Learn from your lack of understanding. Remember the words the great thinker/writer Wendell Berry said, "Do something today that doesn't add up."

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I moved my studio to a new building, for me-not the building, I needed some new outlets installed in the darkroom area. So I hired a licensed electrician that was recommended by the towns building inspector. Electrician showed up, looked at where the new outlets were needed. Mounted the sockets and ran the wire to an outlet by my desk. I asked him if he wanted me to pull the fuse. He said no, pulled out a mother of all screwdrivers, shorted the live outlet, hooked up the wires and left me to reset the tripped breaker!

Well done Jim, just goes to show a bit of perseverance goes a long way!

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Good Old Norm.
This is hilarious and poignant. I was looking at the boards of this machine with a electrical genius the other day and he said to me, "You can hook power to just this and see if it melts. That will tell you if it's gone." I looked at him startled. Here is a guy who 10 minutes earlier spoke a form of electrical language that sounded a bit like Mandarin, and now he's talking my language, that of the country people more comfortable with a screw drive on a carb than a soldering iron on a circuit board.

None the less, I took my desoldering gun to about everything on the motor switch board and tested it all with a multimeter. Everything I touched seemed good as gold. I then realized the wiring harness between the two switch boards had broken free from one switch board and a few wires were broken off the other. After desoldering and cleaning up the mess, I rebuilt the wiring harness, put things back together and plugged the son-of-a... in. VIOLA! Motor spun. No smoke, no melting, no blown fuse. I'm back up and running.

Lesson to those reading this; If you run into something you know little about, press on! Learn the language. Learn from your lack of understanding. Remember the words the great thinker/writer Wendell Berry said, "Do something today that doesn't add up."

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Pleased for you, I hate unsolved problems, you have took it on learned a lot and got a positive out outcome. Also your post will help others :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jkorpi

Duolab,
Yep. The right fuse. If I found that to be the issue at this point I would have surely walked into a river with stones in my pockets.

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Nope, stay away from the river. Don't ever underestimate our ability to not see the obvious. Last night I was taking pictures of my cats drinking out of the sink in our "guest bath" sounds better than the hall toilet. I have my new latest and greatest Nikon 70-200 zoom in play, I've had it for less than a week. I backed up to achieve minimum focus distance, fell butt first into the (empty) bathtub. Good thing it's a VR lens! No damage to the lens, I have a big bruise where I carry my wallet ;)

That's just great you got your machine going.
Never surrender!