The current rule exist because the old rules created far too many problems and too much work for the volunteers to want to handle. Far less trouble for them now -- even with the occasional old worn-out complaints that resurface.
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The current rule exist because the old rules created far too many problems and too much work for the volunteers to want to handle. Far less trouble for them now -- even with the occasional old worn-out complaints that resurface.
I looked the other day and found the rules in less than 10 minutes under the FAQ at https://www.largeformatphotography.i...php?faq=vb_faqQuote:
Originally Posted by goamules
Where did you look? I did a quick google search and the top result was the thread here titled "Clarification of FS/WTB bumping rules" The last post in that thread was on Feb 28, 2020 by you. https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1539542
It is a little confusing that at the top of the FS forum some of the rules are listed but not all of them. In one of the sticky posts it says "Please read the new guidelines." but doesn't say where those guidelines are. I too would appreciate a sticky post in the FS forum with a link to the rules or that post being the "official" rules.
-Darren
Darren, we prefer to minimize the number of sticky posts at the top of the FS subforum so that as many as possible of the threads that show up on the first page of the index are actual member FS threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Kruger
Unfortunately, vBulletin does not allow us to include a link to the guidelines within the text at the top of the FS subforum. However, a while back we did edit the text to include this wording pointing out an easy way to get to the guidelines:
Click on "Usage Guidelines" in the menu bar at the top of the Forum screen.
This site, and its forum, are about many more things than buying and selling gear. I've both bought and sold items here , but that's not why I show up so regularly.
I'm here because I regularly see wonderful new photos, learn new things about photography. photographers, gear, and life. And occasionally I have something useful to offer (I hope). This forum helps keep my LF flame alive. I do see plenty of interesting things for sale, too, no doubt about that. But if gear transactions are your primary focus, best to remember that there are plenty of places on the web for just that... and that transactions are a small part of "Large Format Photography".
By the way, nobody has been permanently banned recently except spammers. There was an ugly confrontation over a simple misunderstanding with another mod, and I did impose a cooling off period so we could sort it out without shouting past each other. And we did sort it out and the misunderstanding was resolved (the action in question had already been reversed). The member still decided to become inactive, but that was his choice. He knows we can reactivate him at any time.
I know of no other forum where moderators allow themselves to be challenged the way we do here. Most forums have explicit rules against complaining publicly about the rules or moderator actions. And most of the other forums I frequent give the moderators far more discretion to act on their own judgement rather than explicitly following written guidelines that we adhere to.
There is no perfect model, but we do our best.
Rick “let’s get back to large format” Denney
Staring at me right in the face; I don't know how I missed that. thanks for pointing it out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oren Grad
-Darren
Nothing new under the sun but I also feel that the rules are best for the mods but not for the users.
There is a trust in this forum that doesn’t exist in other places. I’ve come to know some of you, and learned from a lot of you, shared the little I know with others here, and I come with the illusion every day that those experiences will continue, and to see what’s new every day. And so when I read “I got a fine lens to sell” I believe it. On eBay I don’t even believe the pictures sometimes (exaggerating somewhat but you get the point).
Selling and buying is a part of the experience of this forum, or it should be, and it feels hampered by the rules in place. I really don’t mind if there were more “bumps” or whatever. It takes me nothing to ignore it if I’m not interested. And I’m not talking from a sellers perspective because I have not sold anything here.
This place is not a business but we all benefit for the experience of buying and selling as we do from the more obscure discussions going on here. I’ve learned things that didn’t know existed from people selling! It’s part of this forum and it should be protected as any other aspect of it. Bring agnostic as in “we’re not for or against” selling/buying is really short minded.
Please understand that we’ve tried all the standard approaches, including bumping free-for-all. What happened was that a few dominated the sales forum. There was a close (not complete) correlation between those who dominated and those who only seemed to be here to sell stuff. It crowded out the members who participate in discussions first and sell second, and we got lots of complaints.
Sure, it took the mods a lot of time to deal with those issues. But that was the secondary problem. The primary problem was that regular members who just wanted to sell something to people they knew had to get into bumping wars with those whose time here was solely spent in the FS forum. People would hit “New Posts” and the list would be dominated by bumps, and we had many requests to filter out the sales forum. Or, people with no intention of buying engaged in commentary on the sales, much of which was not helpful and about we received many, many complaints. It wasn’t fair, or consistent with the purpose and principles of this forum. Complaints aren’t just work for the mods—they represent an aggrieved party. The old way did not work for many, many of our regular members. Now, when I hit New Posts or other general searches, the posts in the FS forum are actually for new things being offered, and we no longer need to filter out sales posts.
This has all been litigated in the past.
I sometimes think people blame the naturally shrinking market on our sales forum. That’s unfair. Ebay once had a special category for LF equipment. That’s gone, but it’s not because they don’t care, it’s because there are fewer buyers and sellers—too few to justify a category. Yet even now, I can find hundreds of bits for my Sinar cameras there, at prices sellers here would rarely get.
The advantage to our want-ads is that “buying the seller” is a lot easier—sellers who participate have a reputation that can be checked and that has to be upheld. Likewise buyers. But when sellers and buyers have no reputation because they don’t participate except in the sales forum, the model fails and something like eBay provides better protections.
Rick “for new members who weren’t here then” Denney
In the general case, nothing. Some people moved on because they stopped doing large format photography. In the specific case of those who view this privately funded space as their personal marketing tool, the owner's more restrictive selling rules. Appropriately so.Quote:
Originally Posted by goamules
Only activity by those who had been taking advantage of the venue.Quote:
Originally Posted by goamules
Tuan owns it, the moderators (including Tuan) set the rules, Tom Westbrook supports IT matters and Brian Reed donates server space, as well as technical support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fromm
I'm grateful to all those people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Fromm
I disagree. Self-centered complaining about this forum not being eBay-for-free is a most obnoxious form of trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody_S
I disagree. Selling and buying ought never have been a part of this forum. But your opinion and my opinion are both irrelevant. Only those of the owner and moderator count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi7475
And it's again taking moderator time and effort to deal with this "feedback." Were I you, I'd stop engaging in that waste. Ban the whiners from posting complaints for a while. If, when that period ends, they persist, ban them permanently. No loss to the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdenney
And it'll continue to be a thorn in the forum's side unless and until the trolls are silenced. But it's your volunteer time and energy, so enjoy responding to the same nonsense over and over again. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rdenney
All true. Well stated. Same could be said about Soapbox!