Need your advice on Purchasing a Starter 4x5 Setup

Hello,

I would like to purchase a 4x5 field camera, however, since this my first time I will ever be using a camera it would be great if I could get some advice and user opinion on my thoughts. I am interested in landscape based photography.

I have purchased the nikon 210 w 5.6mm lens as my first lens, however it is not mounted on a lens board and I am unsure whether I should be attempting to mount the lens on the board myself? Is it easy? Do I need special tools? Any tips how to do this?

I plan on matching the below equipment to a Gitzo2541ex and a RSS BH55 ballhead (which I already own)

So far the following parts have been on my mind (they are all off the Robert White website)

Shen Hao PTB45

ShenHao 1m cable release (X3 for future lenses and in Case I lose one)

Fuji Quickload Holder + Velvia 50 quickload 20sheets (So far the quickload seems to be the easiest most hassle free option. Not sure whether I should just get some holders at first and some sheets of film, it might be much cheaper, and it might help me learn more about film, but then I would need, a changing tent, and film holders which in themselves cost considerably.. your opinions?)

Schneider 4x Lupe for viewing slides and focusing (not sure whether a 6x would be better, the 6x is almost 2x the price!)

A spot meter (The spot meters all seem to be quite expensive, the closest one I could find is the Sekonic L758D and that is quite expensive! I have heard the old Pentax has the problem of mercury batteries which I could not buy due to the contemporary environmental restrictions)

Harrison Silver Classic Dark Cloth (again not sure if necessary, perhaps a shirt will be sufficient)


Am I missing something? What do you think of the above combination of equipment?

Thank you for your input...

A couple of things-Fuji will no longer be making quickloads, so you might want to think about getting some holders. Used holders are fairly cheap ($7-$10 ea) and boxed film widely available in many flavors both color and B&W.

A better meter for you may be a first generation Sekonic L-508. It is a combination 1-5deg spot and incident meter. very versatile and will even give you flash exposures. You should be able to pick one up for about $200.

If this is a first foray into LF, I would suggest that you buy as much as you can used and cheap. This way if LF is not for you, you haven't spent a boat load of money. You will almost never be able to recover the cost of a new camera when you sell, but almost always can recover the cost of used equipment.

LF photography and the equipment used is a very personal thing. What works for me may not for you and you likely will not continue with the first camera that you own. Go cheap first, learn what you like and need and then try to find the camera that you will use into the future or not.

The Nikon 210 is a good choice. It will give you a good starter lens with tons of movements to learn LF.

I think that you will find this forum a great source of information and knowledge. Good luck and good light!

Cheers,
Robert

Hold off on mounting the lens until you get the camera, as the lens board is not interchangeable between all makes.
The board should have the proper size hole, I think a Copal 1 for that lens.
You need a lens wrench, got mine for $20 at a camera mart.

I got a piece of black and white cloth from the local fabric store, and will have it sewn together; one side back (inside) other side white (outside). A dark shirt might do just as well. You just need to block enough light to see and focus the image on the ground glass.

You can get used film holders relatively cheaply. I got mine for $5 each at the local camera mart. They were so cheap that I got 2x more than I originally planed for.
You will need a changing back anyway, so that is not an issue.

You should pick-up a book on using V-cam, there are several. I picked up a used copy of "Using The View Camera" by Steve Simmons for just a couple of $$. Check Amazon.

Some advice:

• Although pictured on the camera, you will probably need a lens board. The hole size depends on your Nikkor's shutter.
• 210mm is considered to be a portrait lens on 4x5 (approximately the same as 70mm on 35mm film). You may want to consider a 130mm of 150mm at some point as a "normal" lens.
• Cut sheets are cheaper than QuickLoad. OTOH, QuickLoad are less hassle and dust free. You don't need a changing bag or dark tent to load regular film holders...a darkened room will do.
• The Schneider loupe is a nice unit, but the Peak 4x is about half the money if you can find one where you live
• Light meters can be expensive. Spot meters are nice, but not essential. If batteries are an issue with a particular meter, adapters are available that will allow use of alkaline or silver cells. The cheaper CdS meters may be your best bet as a noob. The are compact, light, and generally accurate. As you define your shooting style, you can decide whether you need to add incident metering, spot metering or low light sensitivity.
• I don't have a dark cloth, but really am feeling the need. Yes, a jacket or dark shirt will work, it can be clumsy. Consider making one rather than buying.
• Cable release length depends on your type of photography. 1 meter?
• Lenses mount onto the lens board with a backing ring. Ideally the ring is tightened on using a specialized tool. In a pinch you can use your finger nails, but they don't work very well.

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by l2oBiN

Hello,
I have purchased the nikon 210 w 5.6mm lens as my first lens, however it is not mounted on a lens board and I am unsure whether I should be attempting to mount the lens on the board myself? Is it easy? Do I need special tools? Any tips how to do this?


Shen Hao PTB45

ShenHao 1m cable release (X3 for future lenses and in Case I lose one)

Fuji Quickload Holder + Velvia 50 quickload 20sheets (So far the quickload seems to be the easiest most hassle free option. Not sure whether I should just get some holders at first and some sheets of film, it might be much cheaper, and it might help me learn more about film, but then I would need, a changing tent, and film holders which in themselves cost considerably.. your opinions?)

Schneider 4x Lupe for viewing slides and focusing (not sure whether a 6x would be better, the 6x is almost 2x the price!)

A spot meter (The spot meters all seem to be quite expensive, the closest one I could find is the Sekonic L758D and that is quite expensive! I have heard the old Pentax has the problem of mercury batteries which I could not buy due to the contemporary environmental restrictions)

Harrison Silver Classic Dark Cloth (again not sure if necessary, perhaps a shirt will be sufficient)

Am I missing something? What do you think of the above combination of equipment?

Thank you for your input...

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1) Choose camera next. The lensboard is usuall specific to the camera. Tell them what sort of shutter your lens is mounted in so they can drill the hole for you. It is not too difficult to mount the lens in the lensboard (unscrew rear element, unscrew locking ring, put lens in hole, screw on locking ring, screw on rear element).

2) Start with a forgiving cheap film. Exposure on a view camera is complicated by things like bellows extension etc. Then there are the inevitable mistakes you will make (forgetting to close the lens, dark slides, determining real shutter speeds, ferreting out light leaks, etc.) do that with film that is cheap rather than expensive.

3) I used to have a spot meter a long time ago, but you can do fine with a less expensive meter. Even eyeballing exposure can work out if the lighting is not challenging.

You will get 10 different strategies for every five people who respond. At some point, you'll just have to jump in and make your own mistakes. Then, you'll be qualified to add a couple of strategies to the thread started by the next person just getting started.

As has been mentioned, Quickloads are no longer being made, though old stocks are still available. If you can get a used holder cheaply enough, it might be worth it if you can amass a sufficient stock of film. But if your aim is to give you a way to experiment without having to also climb the sheet-film learning curve, I would suggest spending that money on a Fuji PA-45 holder and a couple of boxes of Fuji FP100C instant film. It is peel-apart instant print film like Polaroid used to be, and you'll be able to navigate the basics of the camera with instant feedback. That will allow you to cover the steepest part of the camera's learning curve while deferring the film-handling learning curve temporarily. It will also be useful into the future for times when you must confirm the setup before committing it to regular film.

The 210 lens will use a Copal No. 1 shutter, which requires a 41 or 42mm hole in the lensboard. Just go out and buy any lens board that will fit your camera designed for a "Copal No. 1" shutter, and the lens will probably fit perfectly. If the hole is slightly too small, just open it up a bit with sandpaper. If it is slightly too large, just tighten the retaining ring down and don't worry about it. The bigger the camera, the less the require precision in mounting the lens. You might want to invest in a set of retaining ring spanners, which are inexpensive.

Yes, a 210 is slightly long on 4x5, but if you were happy using just a 50mm or 55mm lens on a 35mm camera, the 210 will be fine as a starting point. Figure out one lens before getting on the lens buying train. There is plenty of time for that!

For large format, I prefer a spot meter, but I also have warped my brain into the Zone System mold. The idea of a spot meter is to measure specific luminances in the scene, and then apply exposure, filtering, and (with black and white) development techniques to connect those scene luminances to specific values (shades of gray for B&W) on the print, predictably. Another strategy is to measure overall scene luminance, and then judge from the look of the scene whether that luminance really is middle gray, and if so expose for that luminance. That's the way small-format cameras work when in "averaging" mode. The "partial" or "evaluative" metering mode of small cameras is sort of a cross between these two approaches. It seeks to make sure that the bright and dark areas of the scene will receive a usable exposure. You will become fairly sophisticated on exposing using a large-format camera, partly because your vision will sharpen as you spend a half hour or more with a scene, and partly because bracketing will be too expensive.

I have an older Pentax Spotmeter V, and I use regular non-mercury batteries in it, and it seems to work fine. I have compared it with my Minoltla Spotmeter F and a Sekonic L-718, and they all differ slightly but they are all within a tight range. I also have an old Gossen Luna Pro, and that meter was a bit wacky with non-mercury batteries. Pentax and Minolta spot meters often sell used for $200 or less. I prefer the Pentax because it reads in EV (exposure value) and I can place each reading on a Zone System scale easily. The Minolta, being all electronic with no meter movement, is more rugged, but both have survived a lot of banging around in my bag.

Many recommend Steve Simmons's book, and I'm sure it is very good. But I think any budding large-format photographer should also own Ansel Adams's series, The Camera, The Negative, and The Print. That will provide a fairly complete exposition of all the important topics we face, including the Zone System and visualization. I would have wasted less effort starting out had I bought those books earlier.

Rick "mistakes are unavoidable; perfection is unattainable: just do it" Denney

The only thing I'd add is to skip the Quickloads, due to their being discontinued.

You can get film holders pretty inexpensively now, I picked up several at a local camera shop (Glazers if you're in the Pugetopolis) for around $20 apiece. I got a film changing bag for around $30, and now carry a total of 4 film holders plus some film and a changing bag when backpacking.

Using regular sheet film rather than Quickloads also gives you more versatility and choice as far as film goes -- I started shooting Delta for my black and white, and I'm very happy with it, partly because it looks so beautiful, and partly because it's very forgiving. When I made the switch to sheets from Quickloads, I loaded a bunch of sheets backward (i.e. emulsion toward the lens). The slides were mostly toast, but the B&W images were fine. Once I realized that I'd loaded my first two batches of film backward, I was surprised that the B&W images didn't show any adverse affects.

Thank you all for your insightful comments. I now have a sekonic L508 meter on is way, however it does not have an instruction manual. Would anyone have it?
I am ditching the quickload and I will go for the film holders. Which film holders are the best? Any difference between new and used holders? Do the holders havet match a specific camera back?

Should I start with BW film? What is the best/cheapest film to start with? Should I develop myself? Is it hard? Is it cost effective? Do I need additional tools?

Where can I get spare 4x5 boxes just to keep the exposed film? Anyone willing to send me some with one or two sheets of used film to practise loading and unloading?

Which eBay dark cloth do you recommend? Any you have tried or think it's good? Similarly any experience with eBay changing tents?

I an planing to stick a RSS rail on the bottom of the camera to enable quick release.

In term of the camera, I would like something that is cheap and has lots of movements and yet is a wooden field based camera. The shenhao came to mind but I could not find many on eBay. Any suggestions of a similar wooden camera? The tachihara perhaps? But it does not have a graflock back and limited back movements...

http://www.mamiya.nl/client/mamiya/u...oads/l-508.pdf