Linhof vs Berlebach for Sinar Norma

I am thinking of getting a tripod for the Norma 4x5/5x7, using the pan/tilt head, with a 180 Symmar S. I have been using the 5x7 previously on a SLIK 700 DX, but that one is going to be used for "the rest" of the camera horde.

The tripod is for outdoors mostly, maximum a kilometer walking in light terrain on nice days. I am thinking it won't be any frog-eye views from this combo, so it needs to go from about 75 cm up to 155-160 cm. I'd rather not use the column to get to that height.

I had two quite different tripod options in mind: a wooden Berlebach (new) or a Linhof Twinshank (used). The Berlebach options are so plentiful, it is hard to navigate.The 302 could work, possibly, although a bit on the short side. While the Linhof options are much more limited, I am unsure whether the dampened column is anything to bring outside (most of the used ones seems to be the P version)?

Just needed to get it out there - what is your ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimi

I am thinking it won't be any frog-eye views from this combo,

---

Ah, but if you got the Franz Bagyi edition, "frog-level" would be a piece of cake, even if you had to hunker a bit on your conventional shots...:)
https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=de...prache=english

I once had a Berlebach tripod. It was great. I only sold it because I bought a Ries. I like the leg locks on the Ries. I've never owned a Linhof tripod.

Anyway, I once contacted the Berlebach people in Germany. They were just as nice and helpful as the Ries people are here in the United States. It's always nice to have great customer service!

Because the rail can be balanced anywhere along its length, it's relatively easy to stabilize a Norma. I happen to use my lighter wooden Ries tripod for the Norma, but the advantge of wood in general is how well it dampens vibration, is easy to handle in freezing temps, and with spike feet, is quite secure from slipping. Avoid rising center columns like the plague, and go for reasonably long legs instead.

I haven't used either but I've been searching reviews about wood tripods... I saw one fairly critical review of the Berlebach, most of which seemed like personal preferences, but the reviewer said the legs would flop closed when he lifted the tripod up. If you move your tripod around trying to find the perfect position, that could be annoying. On the other hand with the Linhof, the braces from the legs to the center column don't appear to be adjustable, which would require all legs to be equally spread apart from the center column.

I just bought a used Ries which was poorly described at what will be a good price if nothing is wrong with the legs. I'm hoping nothing was hidden by the poor description. The Ries tri-lock system would avoid the "annoyances" with leg positions of either the Linhof or the Berlebach.

I mostly agree with Drew's advice to avoid a rising century column however some of the Linhof tripods have very heavy steel center columns which if clamped down seem stable but the weight is too much for me to carry it very far ... so my experience is limited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeff Keller

I haven't used either but I've been searching reviews about wood tripods... I saw one fairly critical review of the Berlebach, most of which seemed like personal preferences, but the reviewer said the legs would flop closed when he lifted the tripod up. If you move your tripod around trying to find the perfect position, that could be annoying. On the other hand with the Linhof, the braces from the legs to the center column don't appear to be adjustable, which would require all legs to be equally spread apart from the center column.

I just bought a used Ries which was poorly described at what will be a good price if nothing is wrong with the legs. I'm hoping nothing was hidden by the poor description. The Ries tri-lock system would avoid the "annoyances" with leg positions of either the Linhof or the Berlebach.

I mostly agree with Drew's advice to avoid a rising century column however some of the Linhof tripods have very heavy steel center columns which if clamped down seem stable but the weight is too much for me to carry it very far ... so my experience is limited.

---

Berelbach now has a cam controlled 5 angle leg spread control on ones made over the last 5 years.
Linhof leg braces are disengageable on most models and adjustable on a couple of models.

Wood over metal any day. I used a medium Otto with my Norma for 20+ years - never a problem.

One of the advantages of a Norma and similar, slide both front & rear standards around on the rail loaded with lens and all on the rail to achieve good balance. This is not a small feature once BIG lenses, long bellows and more are added to the camera as needed to achieve what the print image goal demands. This is not so easy to do on a flat bed with a fixed tripod mounting point.

Balanced camera helps significantly to reduce set up instability, loading on the tripod head and tripod and all.. It also can add to vibration damping and wind stability.

GOOD wood tripods are a LOT tougher and more durable than aluminum leg tripods and similar metal tripods. High quality wood tripods also tend to damp vibrations better, work better in extreme cold and tough environmental conditions. Wood tripods can be lower weight for a similar size and load capacity compared to metal tripod.


Bernice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

Because the rail can be balanced anywhere along its length, it's relatively easy to stabilize a Norma. I happen to use my lighter wooden Ries tripod for the Norma, but the advantge of wood in general is how well it dampens vibration, is easy to handle in freezing temps, and with spike feet, is quite secure from slipping. Avoid rising center columns like the plague, and go for reasonably long legs instead.

---

Personally use:
Linhof Heavy Duty tripod with various heads when weight and portability are not considerations.
BENRO TAD28C Adventure Carbon Fiber tripod with a medium RRS ball head when hiking or when I was backpacking. I think this tripod is very under-rated. Light and compact and I have no problem using it a 4x5 MF camera.
GITZO G1325C Carbon Fiber tripod with a large RRS ball head is the tripod that always resides in the back of my vehicle. My favorite tripod and head for MF equipment. Started off using a Sinar Pan-Tilt head on the BENRO AND GITZO, but then preferred RRS ball heads after borrowing one.
Large RIES with one of their large heads for whole plate & 8x10.
Very Large RIES with their largest (at one time) head for 11x14.
The Sinar Pan-Tilt head when I use my Norma, it just feels right to use with the classic Norma.

When I started to shoot 8x10 in the mid 1970s, my first LF tripod was a circa 1960s wooden Burke & James "PORTABLE STUDIO STAND" with its Burke & James wooden piano type hinged head. Honestly if I were relegated to have and use only one tripod and it was that B&J, 99.5% of my images would be exactly the same as any the ones I took with my present way more expensive and featured tripods.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

Avoid rising center columns like the plague, and go for reasonably long legs instead.

---

I agree with this. I haven't used a center column in over 15 years and don't miss it at all.


Kent in SD

I have both a Berlebach and a twin-shank Bogen. The latter is a much finer piece of machinery, but there's an important feature that everyone talks about-- lack of vibration. I thought this was a bogus issue until I had to do some video with a telephoto lens, where the difference became immensely clear in favor of wood, as everyone in the past has said. So now I use the Bogen in the studio with strobes, where it's more flexible, and the wood tripod where vibration is an issue.

Consider the tripod materials used by the serious cinema, video, surveyor devices, Astronomy telescopes and similar optical devices. Majority are not metal and of a multi-shank design with NO rising center column. Wood has served users of these imaging devices for a long time and to this day.

It does make me wonder where the belief that aluminum legged tripods are better than wood came from.


Bernice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mdarnton

I have both a Berlebach and a twin-shank Bogen. The latter is a much finer piece of machinery, but there's an important feature that everyone talks about-- lack of vibration. I thought this was a bogus issue until I had to do some video with a telephoto lens, where the difference became immensely clear in favor of wood, as everyone in the past has said. So now I use the Bogen in the studio with strobes, where it's more flexible, and the wood tripod where vibration is an issue.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bernice Loui

Consider the tripod materials used by the serious cinema, video, surveyor devices, Astronomy telescopes and similar optical devices. Majority are not metal and of a multi-shank design with NO rising center column. Wood has served users of these imaging devices for a long time and to this day.

It does make me wonder where the belief that aluminum legged tripods are better than wood came from.


Bernice

---

How many aluminum pianos, violins, guitars have you experienced?

and there are combinations

I have a 50's version of this, with wood, same thing sold now

Linhof Vintage Heavy-Duty Pro 2-Section Tripod, 44 lbs Load Capacity, 55" Maximum Height, Oiled Ash Wood

https://www.adorama.com/lf003324.htm...urce=adl-gbase

What I like are big spikes on any tripod to hold the Earth still

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bernice Loui

It does make me wonder where the belief that aluminum legged tripods are better than wood came from.

Bernice

---

They are less expensive. That's the only advantage that I see. Of course, sometimes you get what you paid for. :)

Depends on the quality. There are budget and even junk versions of all three : wood, aluminum, and carbon fiber, as well as very high quality versions of all these.

How do wooden tripods cope with immersion in salt or fresh water?

Most of my work involves having the feet or lower sections in the sea or in rivers.

I'd like to use my Berlebach, but leave it at home in case i need to get the feet wet!

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mpirie

How do wooden tripods cope with immersion in salt or fresh water?

Most of my work involves having the feet or lower sections in the sea or in rivers.

I'd like to use my Berlebach, but leave it at home in case i need to get the feet wet!

Mike

---

The wooden legs on my RIES tripods have been immersed in the streams of New England hundreds of times with no worse the wear. Every now and then do apply auto polish on them. When immersed in salt water, I rinse the legs off with fresh water but that may be days later. I worried more about the metal leg locks, but after years of use, they still operate as when new. Can't same the same for a vintage aluminum Gitzo. After one summers use at the seashore, the rotating leg locks never worked smoothly again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Salomon

How many aluminum pianos, violins, guitars have you experienced?

---

Through the magic of google I was able to confirm my vague recollection: the Hindenburg had an aluminum piano. One of several references:https://www.airships.net/blog/hindenburg-piano/

Note that the piano was not on Hindenburg when it burned, it had been removed at the beginning of 1937, one source says that was done to save weight.

David

I could use a wooden tripod for my 4x5 Norma, and the Zone VI as well. I'll have to start saving money... I won't sell my steel-bodied 1938 National guitar (with its spun-aluminum resonator cone) to finance one, though.

Thank you Mark for reminding me of the resonator guitars. A 1938 National, that's really cool.

David

I just found a Linhof Twinshank (003333) with the pneumatic center column, and for under 100 euros I'll just see if I like it. Worst case, it'll be a good enough studio tripod. Works fine with the Sinar pan/tilt head. Only thing that might be a problem going forward is spare parts, especially the two rubber rings top and bottom on the column.

Many tripods will work with 4x5/5x7 Normas. The 60s Architectural Illustrator Julius Shulman used up to 8x10 Norma on a highly modified Leitz Tiltall. Work fine for his needs. Pictures are is his library of books.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a6b2a804_z.jpg4x5 5x7 8x10 Normas by Nokton48, on Flickr


I bought the Manfrotto to use on commercial architectural assignments. The Zone VI is well beaton and still working for me like a champion. The FOBA C40 is the tripod designed for Norma (it's in the Norma catalog) and in some ways completes the Norma. With a big heavy Norma extensions two C40's will stabilize this rig. Also the legs on the C40 can be infinitely extended with FOBA Combitubes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimi

I just found a Linhof Twinshank (003333) with the pneumatic center column, and for under 100 euros I'll just see if I like it. Worst case, it'll be a good enough studio tripod. Works fine with the Sinar pan/tilt head. Only thing that might be a problem going forward is spare parts, especially the two rubber ring top and bottom on the column.

---

No problem with parts. LInhof in Munich or any LInhof service center has them. Those rings are used on current LInhof tripods.

Good to know, Bob - I'll have to contact them to get some new ones.

I've always wondered if there was an "official" tripod for the Norma, and I have seen FOBAs being mentioned in Ebay listings. In what way do they complete the Norma setup?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimi

I've always wondered if there was an "official" tripod for the Norma, and I have seen FOBAs being mentioned in Ebay listings. In what way do they complete the Norma setup?

---

In going through my original Sinar Norma literature, most of the time Normas were mounted on Gitzo tripods and a few times on FOBA tripods. Every Norma was shown to be mounted atop their Pan-Tilt head. Conspicuously, in going through the Sinar ads in my collection of international photo technik magazines, there never seemed to be a tripod shown in their ads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimi

Good to know, Bob - I'll have to contact them to get some new ones.

I've always wondered if there was an "official" tripod for the Norma, and I have seen FOBAs being mentioned in Ebay listings. In what way do they complete the Norma setup?

---

No, Sinar and Foba were both Swiss and both were distributed by EPOI while I was there. We were issued Foba tripods to demo Sinar. When Sinar formed there own distribution company in the USA they partnered with Broncolor and Foba.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Salomon

No, Sinar and Foba were both Swiss and both were distributed by EPOI while I was there. We were issued Foba tripods to demo Sinar. When Sinar formed there own distribution company in the USA they partnered with Broncolor and Foba.

---

Did Foba share parts/ design with some of Gitzo's bigger classic aluminium tripods (systematic/ series 5)? There seems to have been at least some shared DNA from what I've seen of Foba's tripods over the years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by interneg

Did Foba share parts/ design with some of Gitzo's bigger classic aluminium tripods (systematic/ series 5)? There seems to have been at least some shared DNA from what I've seen of Foba's tripods over the years.

---

Not that I’m aware of.