Has there ever been a retrofocus wide that covers 4x5/9x12 or larger?

I know the reasons why you're supposed to not want one. My question is simply whether such a beast actually exists. Can't find anything in the VM or in the second edition of Ray.

The Komura 75mm and 90mm f/6.3 lenses were retrofocus right?

75mm Biogon is also retrofocus to an extent. And really any modern wide-angle has an infinity focus of slightly more than its focal length.

What is defined as truly retrofocus?

I'll make it more concrete: shorter-than-normal (where normal = format diagonal) lenses with FFD long enough for the rear cell to clear the mirror of a Graflex in the respective format.

The Super Symmar Aspheric XL lenses look retrofocus to me, also the Super Angulon XL's.

Komura Super-W 90mm f/6.3 apparently has a FFD of about 130mm. Oren, what is the minimum FFD on the 9x12 or 4x5 Graflex SLRs? I remember the "standard" lens on one of those was a 190mm, so I assume the FFD needs to be close to that...a tall order.

A ~125mm lens of the same design as the Komura Super-W seems like it would fit the bill. But most references online only mention the 75mm and 90mm, with one rare mention of a 47mm (!) version.

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Originally Posted by Corran

Oren, what is the minimum FFD on the 9x12 or 4x5 Graflex SLRs? I remember the "standard" lens on one of those was a 190mm, so I assume the FFD needs to be close to that...a tall order.

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Dunno off the top of my head, but I have a 4x5 Super D, will look at that sometime later today after I've gotten some work responsibilities out of the way. But yes, the standard FL on the 4x5 Super D was 190, and it will be a tall order.

Maybe the 125, 100, and 80mm Fuji GX lenses, the ones for the GX680 systerm? They fit in Seiko shutters.

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Originally Posted by Oren Grad

I'll make it more concrete: shorter-than-normal (where normal = format diagonal) lenses with FFD long enough for the rear cell to clear the mirror of a Graflex in the respective format.

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Sorry, no.

The closest is the 1.75"/2.8 Elcan type C-88 (serial numbers are 88-xxxx), which is the shortest lens that will focus to infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. Covers 6x6, just. Not at all what you want.

f/4.5 Biogons aren't retrofocus, their back focus (rear vertex to film) at infinity is roughly half focal length.

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Originally Posted by Oren Grad

I know the reasons why you're supposed to not want one.

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I don't -- what are the reasons I'm not supposed to want one? I've always thought they would be a pretty good idea. Especially when you get down to, say, 80mm or less on 5x4. About the point were you start locking up the bellows when you use more than a little shift, say.

Or as you point out, you're trying to avoid a big honking swinging mirror in a Graflex.

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Originally Posted by Oren Grad

My question is simply whether such a beast actually exists. Can't find anything in the VM or in the second edition of Ray.

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When I was investigating this many years ago, I couldn't find one. Many of the lenses had rear nodal points that were farther away from the film plane than you'd normally think they would be based on their focal lengths, but was that really a retrofocus design? I didn't think so. Because it wasn't sufficiently retrofocus to be really useful.

Interesting question; it'll be interesting to see what this thread turns up.

Following up on Corran's posts, my 75mm f/6.3 Komura has a measured-by-me flange focal distance of right around 100mm.