The things I don't know... :) Help (Crazy lens movements; lens choices; bellows optio

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum (Canada). I've been searching/reading, but I guess I'll just ask the community.
21yrs experience - fine art | fashion.

I shoot like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10483352@N08/
--- I do a lot of crazy camera movements (pulling zoom while moving). Do you think I can recreate this on an 8x10 camera with floating bellows? YES I'm INSANE!!!


Right now, it's with a Canon 5DMK2 (50ISO, neutral), I've been shooting for over 20yrs. I don't think mega pixels are yielding the clean/large print quality I need now. I started with a Nikormat FT3 (E6 100ASA) Love thick colour.

So here we go, lets get a 8x10 field camera with lenses.

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?

Bellows option? Floating/non fixed?

8x10 camera body - must be willing to be abused :)

I'm pretty strong, as I do lighting for the film industry as a day job. So weight is not a problem. Results, must be epic, though :)

Please advise... Thank YOU! :)

I’ve never seen anyone do this, so I’ll be interested in seeing what you do. 8x10 is very cumbersome, so you’ll have to experiment with what movement you can accomplish. Would a ball head help, or would the possible three way movement introduce too much movement? I know you said 8x10, but 4x5 might be easier to handle.
Let us see what you work out.

You won't be able to move an 8x10 around much, but you could generate directional blur via slow shutter speed and panning the tripod head. Personally, I'd recommend a 3-way head for this as it would allow you to control the direction of the blur. In general, you can apply a 6x factor to replicate your full frame focal lengths to 8x10. For example, a normal focal length of 50mm on full frame would be equal to 300mm on 8x10. How much abuse are we talking? Most wooden field cameras can't stand much rough handling, but metal ones, like the Calumet C1 (aka Green Monster) could probably be dropped off a building and be fine. :)

Richie,

Suggest you add your location to your signature, as there are a number on this site from Canada.

Your comments, include multiple references to "crazy", so welcome to the insane asylum... The residents are mostly benevolent and non-violent. And helpful.

John's suggestion on using 4x5 is valid, as it will be easier to handle, equipment less expensive and easier to find, and less expensive to shoot. If you want to start with 8x10, then you might consider using photo paper instead of film to learn how to use the equipment, how it works, and the resulting image with manipulations you are looking at doing.

One of the things you will find, is that DOF (Depth of Field) gets real shallow in large format and gets even more shallow as you move up in format (4x5 to 8x10). And of course, same as small format, the longer the lens, the shallower the DOF. Would not start searching for 480mm or 600mm lenses to start.

The nature of large format photography never had a market demand for a lens that changed focal length during composition or exposure, so no zoom lenses in the large format arsenal.

Hope that helps provide some minor insight,

Len

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If you want a front standard/bellows that isn't fixed look at the intrepid cameras. Their front standard is loose until it is secured by a bolt to the base so I guess you could work out a way of leaving that free and moving it during exposure. Perhaps with a handle that the bolt from the standard could screw into? Other options would be to prop up the standard with a wedge that you could remove quickly so the lens would drop during exposure - you could do that with the standard secured but the rise/fall control loosened right off.

It might also be worth experimenting with paper negatives or X ray film so you could get the techniques down without spending too much money at first. Ilford direct positive paper has an ISO of 1 to 3 which might be useful for what you are trying to do.

Images as is done with digital works good.

Question is, why 8x10 film? What potential added value or advantage might 8x10 bring to your images made as exampled?


This is essentially painting with light. Any view camera is not idea for moving around. Even press cameras that were specifically designed for hand held images remains bulky compared to a modern mirrorless or similar small rangefinder film camera.

Suggest instead of moving the camera to achieve this style of expressive image making (painting with light). Set up a view camera on a stand or tripod in a dark room, open the shutter allowing the film to record the light being moved around to essentially paint with light on to the film.

There is a long and rich tradition of view camera images made this way. Indoor architectural images made by setting up a view camera in a dark room, open the shutter-lens to allow film to be exposed by incoming light, the image maker dressed in black can freely move about in the room with a portable strobe essentially painting the image on to film with light.

Robert Buelteman does this style of painting with light, direct on 8x10 film, no camera.
https://www.buelteman.com/


Essentially, transfering your current method of dancing with the lens-camera to produce these images is not realistic, fixing the lens-camera then dancing with the light sources is very do-able.



Bernice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RITCHIE

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum (Canada). I've been searching/reading, but I guess I'll just ask the community.
21yrs experience - fine art | fashion.

I shoot like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10483352@N08/
--- I do a lot of crazy camera movements (pulling zoom while moving). Do you think I can recreate this on an 8x10 camera with floating bellows? YES I'm INSANE!!!


Right now, it's with a Canon 5DMK2 (50ISO, neutral), I've been shooting for over 20yrs. I don't think mega pixels are yielding the clean/large print quality I need now. I started with a Nikormat FT3 (E6 100ASA) Love thick colour.

So here we go, lets get a 8x10 field camera with lenses.

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?

Bellows option? Floating/non fixed?

8x10 camera body - must be willing to be abused :)

I'm pretty strong, as I do lighting for the film industry as a day job. So weight is not a problem. Results, must be epic, though :)

Please advise... Thank YOU! :)

---

Use a light weight 4x5" camera with a bellows, a pinhole, put the camera on a tripod and use it handheld.
As I have done some similar photography myself with a Nokia, as the success factor was pretty low, I would say stay with the Canon for those pictures, and use 8x10" for different effects, especially with the price and time for each picture.
I saw a series of Dali with water and cat-pictures done with 8x10", the success rate was low there also ;)

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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RITCHIE

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?

---

7x

HOLY SHHHHNIKES!!! THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION thus far :)

I'm super happy, you are all friendly and willing to share. I also teach and keep all my camera controls open to public viewing on my website. no secrets. I believe in coming up with new stuff, not relying on my old techniques.

Fun Facts about me:
I don't need it to be easy. I like it to be difficult :)
I've been using Photoshop since 2003, it's a superb tool, but I'm in love with the TRUTH. Film is Truth. Getting a perfect shot contains a higher power.
I started shooting in Nov. 4, 2000. My 1st mentor only let me shoot film. I wanted to shoot digital, but he made me promise to stick with film for 5yrs.
He used to rip photographs in half in front of me, to teach me what perfect means... It hurt and cost so much $$$, but gained some confidence.

I guess I'm a sucker for a bad time, let's spend all my hard work on film.
-The reason I'm coming back to film is because I've noticed that I've become even pickier than I used to be. I don't want to use Photoshop at all. A perfect exposure, beats Photoshop in quality (my opinion).
All my new shots (past 2yrs) are not Photoshop'd. I'm happier with them as natural with latitude.

I'm not opposed to 4x5, but I do not want to paint my image with moving lights while I watch, I want the camera to be alive (my new style).

I'm picking 8x10 because it is the largest size I think I can manage right now. I would like to venture into LARGE FORMAT PRINTING. I shoot with the intention of large reproduction. My new stuff is more poetic than scientific.

After looking, it seems my focus is looking for good glass, which I don't know much about. I just read reviews, but I like sharp colour.
It also seems all the old rules I knew about f-stops is out the window too. I believe I have to relearn the f-stops specific to each particular lens I will eventually own.

I like shooting 5.6/f8/f32. I don't like shooting f2.8 anymore(spent half my youth on f2).

I've been staying up until 6am every night just studying Large Format. It's very exciting and beautiful to see you all working/meditating on shots. I believe photography has made me a better quality person. I'm introverted, but used photography to learn to be social. Now I can pretend I'm social, without the camera :)

I'm addicted to the mood in which light can be harnessed. I study it relentlessly. It is the single factor, which separates most of us. LEARN LIGHTING, STUDY LIGHTING, LIVE LIGHTING.
The last shows I helped do lighting on: Deadpool, SEE, Snake Eyes.

So yes, I can set up any light that exists, but I'm very interested in our SUN! :)

Does anyone want to see me glass?
300mm? - I'll take all your notes into consideration. As I'll try to prep a base lens for both 4x5 and 8x10.
-- I still don't know what I want... I'm glad all of you are patient with me to find the right answer.

*Multiplication - are you guys saying I can use my current 50mm (Nikkor f2.8) with a 7x multiplier and fill more than 330mm (8x10 coverage)?

PS: I also don't know how I'm going to achieve/do any of this, but I'm not in charge, the photo is.
- (also what I tell every client who starts to complain while I'm trying to make them good looking).