Schneideritis

What's going on with these bouts of "Schneideritis", the white specs that tend to afflict Schneider lenses? Is it only Schneider lenses?

I can understand an affliction like this occurring on older lenses (e.g. 70's vintage), where at the time, they weren't aware of the long term effects of whatever black coating they were using inside the lens. But I heard of an Apo Symmar lens the other day that was having this problem. Does Rodenstock, Nikon, or Fuji lenses have this problem? Can it not be fixed?

Schneider says that this problem won't affect image quality. But, I have to question this. These are bright silver specs, for cryin' out loud, and they're inside the lens! They must reflect light like crazy. Are we to believe that some of this stray light won't make it into the camera?

I almost hate to ask this question, but it bears asking. I have several Schneider lenses, and a few of them have this problem. I'm inclined to standardize on Schneider, because of the way they've revolutionized wide-angle photography. I also like the level of contrast that I obtain with Schneider lenses. But, to hear of this problem on recent lenses is a bit dimaying. I wonder, what gives?

Neil, I dont know about the problem but my lenses dont seem to suffer from this. I have had them for at least 10 years and all the lenses look like brand new.

I get the feeling they got some bad paint and decided not to address the problem. I bought these lenses new, and although not cheap they are not in the same league as the symmars XL. You can bet your behind that if I paid what they want for the 210 XL and it had the slightest hint of schnideritis they would be getting their lens back along with a nasty letter, alas I dont feel like dropping $2600 bucks....then again it might be awsome to use it with the 12x20.....well heck Neil...damm you, now you got me thinking...and that is a dangerous thing.....

I recently bought a 150 mm Componon S at auction (for AU$100 and on a De Vere lens board which was alone worth more) and it had this ailment. I read of Schneideritis on a web list, maybe Photonet, and the comment was that for enlarger lenses at least, the only negative consequence was a reduction in resale value. I happened to mention this to a reputable local dealer this morning and he was aware of this fault, but said it would not have significant bearing on their buying price. He believes that it is to do with a black coating applied to the bevel of the lens perimeter, and that it doesn't migrate to the imaging area of the lens. I haven't had an opportunity to try this lens yet; it's more of a problem for me that the neg carrier and lens board are almost at the top of the column of the De Vere 504 to project an 8x10 field for 4x5!

Neil,

I have a Schneider or two with some black specks. No problems whatsoever. However, your problem seems a little different. "Schneideritis" is flecks of the flat black anti-reflective coating that Schneider paints the insides of their lenses with. You mention bright silver-colored highly-reflective specks of something. That sounds like metal shavings to me, and could indicate mechanical problems in the shutter or stripped threads on a lens mount, etc. Double check to make sure if the specks are black paint-like material or if they look like metal. If the latter, I would be inclined to have my lens/shutter inspected and CLAd if necessary. Good luck.

I think that Schneideritis is probably not so limited to Schneider lenses, but that the design of some popular Schneider lenses with the front element's bevel angled such that it is visible from the front of the lens probably makes the problem more apparent. The paint is obviously there for a reason (to prevent light scattering), and it would probably be better if it weren't separating from the glass, but it doesn't seem to have a major effect. I suspect that failure to use a lens shade does more to reduce contrast than Schneideritis, and use of a lens shade probably minimizes the effects of Schneideritis.

It's ugly and doesn't speak well for their quality control. That's why I buy Rodenstocks.

As a inveterate cheapskate, bottom feeder, underpaid teacher, and used lens buyer, I find that I have been able to gather a very nice collection of Schneider lenses because Schnieder's poor paint.

I never noticed any discernible difference between lenses with Schneideritis and those without: I even compared two 150mm Symmar-S lenses, from the same year--one with Schneideritis, one without--and couldn't find any difference.

I believe however that if you have bought the lenses new, from an official importer of Schneider-USA lenses, that you can have these lenses repaired (repainted?) free of charge.

"I have a Schneider or two with some black specks. No problems whatsoever. However, your problem seems a little different. "Schneideritis" is flecks of the flat black anti-reflective coating that Schneider paints the insides of their lenses with."

Maybe it's how you describe it, but I always thought Schneideritis was white (I suppose you could call them silverish?) specs - not black. The effect is rather like one of those old black or blue cracked enamel tin camping mugs or coffee pots.

As I understand it, it's where black paint has come off, leaving white or silver specs behind. It's the common ailment that I'm speaking about. I'm not referring to black specks on the inside of the lens.

Have 5 Schneider lenses manufactured between 1983 and today and didn't experience any "Schneideritis" up to now.

Anyhow I have sent a link to this threat to Werner Bayer, head of customer service at Schneider Kreuznach. I am optimistic that Schneider will take the chance to clearify the situation and explain how Schneider plans to regain trust among their customers...

Neil, the effect isn't restricted to Schneider. I have a small heap of Boyer Saphir B enlarging lenses, and the outer edges of all of their elements that I can see have a white bubbly effect. I've also seen something similar in a few of my ex-AGI F135 38/4.5 Biogons.

Cheers,

Dan

I own 9 (nine) Schneider lenses, dating from 1924 to late 1970's. The only lens I have which has significant "Schneideritis" is a 1930's Rodenstock Eurynar...

I'm far more concerned about Rodenstock's tendency toward balsam failure - which the Eurynar is immune to being uncemented. All three of my Rodenstock enlarging lenses have a little balsam failure at the edges.

Just received a statement from Schneider. For the few who prefer to read in english I tried a summarized quick and dirty translation (sorry for my poor english!)

“…The effect discussed on the internet site mentioned by you is a separation of smallest paint particle at the edges of lenses, which can occur after years of use under certain environmental influences. By the magnifying glass effect of the single lenses these "white points" appear clearly increased. They lie outside the picture-determining path of rays and for this have no influence on the image quality. Our service is able to repaint the affected lenses and would make an offer after sending in the lens…”

I think it’s a good sign that Schneider is reacting on this discussion. However they neither explicitly rule out this issue for lenses sold today nor do they make any comment on what generations of lenses have been affected.

original in german: „...bei dem auf der von Ihnen verwiesenen Internetseite diskutierten Effekt handelt es sich um eine Ablösung winzigst kleiner Lackpartikel an den Linsenrändern, die nach Jahren des Gebrauchs unter bestimmten Umwelteinflüssen auftreten kann. Durch den Lupeneffekt der Einzellinsen erscheinen diese "weißen Punkte" deutlich vergrößert. Da diese Lackablösungen an der Linsenrandfläche auftreten und somit außerhalb des bildbestimmenden Strahlengangs liegen haben diese keinen Einfluss auf die Bildqualität. Unser Service ist aber in der Lage entsprechende Einzellinsen neu zu lackieren und unterbreitet Ihnen nach Einsendung des Objektives und Beurteilung des Aufwandes ein Angebot.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Ulrich Eilsberger business unit - photo director product management“

The white artifacts seem to be where the painted lens mount touches a lens rear surface. It has little or nothing to do with image forming across the whole image.

I have a Fujinon f/5.6 65mm with very tiny Schneidneritis, a Fujinon f/6.3 250mm with miniscule Schneideritis. My three other Fujinon lenses, are as clean as a whistle. I don't have any issues with any of my lenses.

My Schneider reprographic lenses from one of my old graphic arts cameras, have Schneideritis on two out of the three lenses on the turret. The Repro lenses were like this when I bought the camera secondhand around 27 years ago, I worried a bit about it, but testing told me there was nothing in it. The Dutch trained reprographic optics expert back then, mentioned that this condition was a known problem with some lenses, there was no answer as to why, just use them they should be alright. I did, they were and still are.


"Itis" as far as I know, is an addition or ending added to any medical condition name, which indicates it is an irritant. :cool:

Mick.

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