Re-Thinking Quick Release Plates

I nearly had a misadventure this afternoon as a result of a loose QR plate and it's made me wonder how folks are attaching their QR plates to their 4x5 cameras. Do you attach with one screw or two?

I've always used Arca/RRS/Kirk plates on my 35mm gear, so I naturally transferred a plate onto my Wisner to use with a B-1 ballhead. I hiked around for a few minutes to find my composition, composed, locked down the camera and when I went to insert the film holder, the whole rig spun on the QR plate! Luckily no damage was done, but I've never had this happen on my other rigs so I'm wondering if using a QR plate is the safest method for this camera, since the plate is carrying a bigger chunk of camera than a DSLR and the attachment point is comparatively small.

I know some members here skip the QR plate and use a head with a simple screw. Is the risk of un-screwing any less with this configuration?

Thanks for your help.

I've always used QR plates, never had a problem. It's usually very obvious if they start to come a little loose and you can re-tighten them long before there's a chance the camera will fall off. If you want a larger plate you might consider the 4"x4" plates that Kirk sells. They have the added advantage of allowing you to move the camera back and forward a little to improve the balance over the tripod. I've never considered doing without a QR plate. I think I'd be more likely to drop the camera while putting it on a tripod screw than I'm likely to lose a camera because a QR plate came loose.

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Originally Posted by Brian Ellis

. . . I think I'd be more likely to drop the camera while putting it on a tripod screw than I'm likely to lose a camera because a QR plate came loose.

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True, but QR plates can't improve stability, and are an added expense and inconvenience for us with several cameras. I never use them.

For view cameras, I've found an anti-twist mechanism is necessary. Either multiple screws to attach the plate to the camera, or inset rubber pads on the quick release plate.

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Originally Posted by Jim Jones

True, but QR plates can't improve stability, and are an added expense and inconvenience for us with several cameras. I never use them.

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Have you ever had the camera un-screw itself from the tripod head fitting?

From a mechanics standpoint, it would seem just as likely to unscrew from the head as it would be from a single-screw QR plate.

I've always used the Bogen/Manfrotto octagonal QR plate (3047 head) and never had a serious concern. Before mounting the camera I always take a quick check that the plate is secure to the monting block of my camera, and when attaching to the head I quickly check that the QR plate is properly secured before letting go of the camera.

I've been using an Arca Swiss QR plate with two LF cameras for 5 years and have never had the QR plate come loose...so far. But what I have experienced is the lens coming loose on the lens board in the field - several times now - and I always pack a copal wrench in my pack.

Once you start down the Arca style head you are stuck with it. There is more than one time what I discovered that I failed to bring the right hex wrench to switch cameras (my AX and Robos takes a larger diameter screw than the CF) or, worse, that I left the QR plate at home on the other camera!

I use the Bogen hexagonal QR plate on all my cameras including ULF. I custom fit them to the bottom of the camera with two or three screws. There is a catch for ULF; I only use a very old head from Bogen that has a screw mechanism that forces the hex plate into the receiver cavity so there's no relative motion between the camera and head (The hex plate is effectively clamped into the receiver). All my other heads are the newer Bogen heads with the snap catch that prevents the cam from opening by itself. Without that little interlock the hex plate system can be prone to opening on it's own.

But all the LF cameras are attached to the plate by multiple screws. When I used a Hasselblad I used both the 3/8 and 1/4 screw threads to mount the plate. Right now the Fuji 6x9 has resisted all effort to use multiple screws.

john

I use the Horseman system - nice large plates with a very quick lever lock system. The plates have a flat bottom so the camera can be set down easily. They are not easy to find and it has taken me a few years to collect a set of four. If you want something larger than the arca they are worth taking a look at.

I use a RRS 6-inch Multi-Purpose Rail QR plate on my Canham 7x17, and attach it with 2 screws to avoid the problem you mention. Solid as a rock.

Using Manfrotto rectangular plates on all my cameras, yes I've in the past had occurrences of the ballhead plates working loose, but never to the point of worrying about having the camera fall off.

The best fix (at least in my opinion) is simply a drop of removeable LocTite (blue).

As I have more than one camera which shares the same tripods, cannot imagine the inconveniences of not using quick release heads.

Glenn

I use Bogen/Manfrotto hex plates. There are two types: one with additional anchor screws and one without. The one with the anchor screws needs a coin or screwdriver to fasten the main screw, and then the other screws are tightened down. The one without the anchor screws has a huge wheel on it to lock down the plate.

I have two tripods, one with a ball head and one with a pan head, and four cameras which use the same plates. I like the system, so I'm sticking with it.

Yes, the 3047 plates have hard rubber that can slip and I've had cameras turn and loosen. With a wood base view camera it's worse, with a solid aluminum plate it's even more of a problem, there is nothing to grip onto. I use the head with a Calumet C1 and what I've done is to purchase a dedicated plate and use the 3/8" for the main and amazingly the 1/4" lines up with the 1/4" hold in the camera base. There is absolutely no slip in it now.

I've used RRS plates on four different field cameras and never had one budge. I start with solvent-cleaned dry threads and then use LocTite Blue (as Glenn recommends); I torque the hell out of the screw and then never touch it again.

I use the Manfrotto hex plates and routinely drill and tap extra holes for rotation stops of various sorts. That covers the DSLR, P67 and Gowland Pocket. The Sinar and B&J are bolted directly to a couple of old Gitzo heads. I've got a long Manfrotto plate meant for movie equipment but haven't made up my mind on it yet as it isn't as wide as I would like.

The RRS variation on the Arca plates seems the best QR to me - lots of options incorporating some form of a keystop to eliminate twist. And lots of options for the female receivers. A strategic drop of Loctite isn't a bad idea either.

But it's also kind of a Mafia operation, all of the sudden you need a $50-$150 plate for each camera...

After going down that road for a few years I now prefer and use a traditional screw and am in the habit of checking it before I lift the tripod, before I make camera movements, etc. My camera is rarely loose but it's a good habit I don't want to break.

Linhof and Sinar do their tripod screws right, with spring loading and nice, fat wheels to spin. But the Gitzo screw and cork top have never failed me, and even the Tiltall is fine if not overloaded.

I replace a top on a Linhof ball head, an older model, with cork and it holds great.

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Originally Posted by BarryS

For view cameras, I've found an anti-twist mechanism is necessary. Either multiple screws to attach the plate to the camera, or inset rubber pads on the quick release plate.

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I either do this, or mill a shallow slot or recess to just fit the camera base (my preferred way if possible).

I'm a true newcomer here. I picked up a Tachihara 4x5 kit earlier in the month and just got a suitable tripod for Christmas. Feisol 3402 with a PhotoClam 40N ballhead (a huge thank you to everyone who has discussed tripods here and at APUG, I would have been lost without that archive of info).

The last bit I needed was a quick replace plate. Based on some positive feedback I read here, I went with the Wimberley P-50. It has 2 screws so it is rather secure.

I took it out for the first time today and loved it. The biggest problem was the torque loosening the ballhead/tripod connection itself. I need to get that screwed in a big tighter but once that is done, I should be set.

I use the Linhof modified to a Foba superball. It is a little finicky to get the camera engaged on it, but it holds like the dickens. I usually hike with the camera attached. If your plates have a secondary set screw, use it.

The system used on video cameras uses one or two pins sort of like registration pins. Another system (from Wimberley) uses a lip on the edge of the plate to prevent rotation. Seems like the latter might work well with field cameras and not require any modification to the body. The screw travels in a slot so needn't be custom for the camera.

I use RRS plates. Some camera have multiple attachment points.

RRS makes a "rail" long plate which is attached at the multiple points.

If your camera has this available, call RRS. Bulletproof.

bob

My own take is that quick release plates are awfully handy for smaller cameras if used with caution. Haste makes waste and QR plates invite haste. If used sloppily, they're an invitation to disaster. I've never had much luck myself using them with LF. Even with a large plate size the "footprint" where the plate contacts the clamp is small and a large camera just doesn't seem stable resting on that small area even if it's clamped tightly. There's just nothing like having a firm foundation supporting the camera up above.

When I rebuilt a Folmer & Schwing 12x20 I borrowed on an idea from a friend of using an intermediate platform to support the camera. The platform attaches to the tripod and the camera then attaches to the platform. What made the system worthwhile is that the platform incorporated rails which allowed quick alignment. It was designed to be used on a Ries Photoplane head and small rails underneath the platform both provided alignment to the head and prevented the platform from rotating on the head. A third rail was used as a stop so that when placed on the Ries head, the tripod screw was aligned directly with the hole above. That way there was no hunting around; the screw was simply pushed upwards and secured with no fuss.

Similarly the platform had rails on either side to keep the camera bed from rotating, all the more an issue with a panoramic camera. When the camera was placed on the platform between the rails and the rear of the bed flush with the rear of the platform, the mounting screw was then aligned with the bushing in the camera. As before, it was a simple matter to then secure the screw.

And that's all there was to it. Index marks weren't required. Everything could be done by feel with no fancy gyrations to keep from dropping the camera. Heck, I didn't even really need to have my eyes open! Yes, it was a two-step operation requiring mounting the platform, then mounting the camera. But they were both quick and easy. For that matter, the platform could be left mounted to the camera most of the time. And best of all, it was solid.

http://wfwhitaker.com/tech/FS1220_5.jpg
http://wfwhitaker.com/tech/FS1220_4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Curt

Yes, the 3047 plates have hard rubber that can slip and I've had cameras turn and loosen. With a wood base view camera it's worse, with a solid aluminum plate it's even more of a problem, there is nothing to grip onto.

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Some of the 3047 plates have cork inserts. I can't recall which are the older or newer plates. It might not make much of a difference in some situations.

For wood base cameras I've overcome slippage (using 3047 plates) by using a piece of non-slip material made to anchor throw rugs. One trade name is "slip knot" and I know it is marketed under other names. It is cheap and easily procured. I just clamp that stuff between the plate and the camera base.

I stopped using the quick release plate. Seem to many cameras where they failed. Plus it also added two more joints to the camera tripod setup and increases the chances for movement.

If you are going to use then they should be fasten by 2 point better yet is 3 points. The main tripod mount plus two more that are screwed into the body of the camera.

Wow, I always thought the Bogen quick release plates were expensive but the RRS stuff beats it by a mile. It looks like good hardware though.

john

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Originally Posted by Bob McCarthy

I use RRS plates. Some camera have multiple attachment points.

RRS makes a "rail" long plate which is attached at the multiple points.

If your camera has this available, call RRS. Bulletproof.

bob

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So do longer Novoflex and Giottos Arca compatible plates. The longest Novoflex plates have the Arca profile on the top and the bottom along with multiple, adjustable screw positions - Allen key fitting - and are available up to 17.7" long.

Be careful interchanging brands of "Arca" plates and clamps. There are a lot of subtle incompatibilities between brands.

Once I bought a Gitzo-made "Arca-style" QR plate. Nope, it didn't fit the Arca clamp. When I complained to Gitzo they said it was only in the style they claimed, not the correct width and angles. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Frank Petronio

Be careful interchanging brands of "Arca" plates and clamps. There are a lot of subtle incompatibilities between brands.

Once I bought a Gitzo-made "Arca-style" QR plate. Nope, it didn't fit the Arca clamp. When I complained to Gitzo they said it was only in the style they claimed, not the correct width and angles. LOL.

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Fortunately, both the Novoflex and Giottos Arca plates are truly Arca compatible.

What isn't fully compatible between brands is the safety lock used by various companies. But that is easily defeated on many brands of Arca type QR bases so you can interchange plates.

My Canham has both 1/4 and 3/8 holes. I use both to attach a quick release plate. You could try putting a small amount of nail polish or loctite on the threads when you attach the quick release plate to the camera. Acetone will remove the nail polish & I believe also loctite if you should want to remove the plate fom the camera. Keep acetone away from any plastic.

So let me ask this: Is there a 3 way pan head with nice big base to accommodate a LF camera, one that has 2 screws?

I think the new Manfrotto heads come with multiple screws, but can't be sure. It's been well over 10 years since I've bought a tripod head.

I've seen Manfrotto heads with the hex plates and others with just screws, but can't recall seeing a model with two screws.

My camera has 2 holes (looks like 1/4 and 3/8 like jeff's) in the bottom and I temporarily shoved a second screw in but it's not the proper size. I'm willing to ditch the plate altogether and go to a 3 way pan tilt head if there's one that will provide a secure attachment.

I had a mishap in the late 1980's with a Bogen quick release. I was shooting a fraternity building for a client. The the quick release plate didn't seat right in the head and the camera fell off of it. I don't know if the spring clip on the tripod head wasn't strong enough or maybe if I had double checked it to make sure that it was seated properly. I broke part of my camera's front standard. I wasn't happy. I stopped using that tripod and went to a screw head mounted gitzo head and legs. It is slower but I haven't had any more camera damage. Since I am using the slowest camera possible I have not been in a hurry to save a few seconds when it can take 15 minutes to a couple of hours to set up a shot and take an exposure.

Don't use quick release plates myself.On my C-1 its a Ries head, and on the 4x5 its a Bogen 3047 head, but the hex plate never comes off, I just screw the camera on as if it were a fixed plate, reason being the camera fits funky in its Pelican case with that bogen octagonal plate attached.I'm thinking of ditching the 4x5 and using my 5DII and stitching as a substitute, so I've been looking at the Really Right Stuff ball head.I know Jack dykinga was using it with his 4x5 and seemed pretty pleased.

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Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

So let me ask this: Is there a 3 way pan head with nice big base to accommodate a LF camera, one that has 2 screws?

...My camera has 2 holes (looks like 1/4 and 3/8 like jeff's) in the bottom and I temporarily shoved a second screw in but it's not the proper size. I'm willing to ditch the plate altogether and go to a 3 way pan tilt head if there's one that will provide a secure attachment.

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Manfrotto 357PLV. This fits the 357 rapid connect adapter. While this is for a video camera, it seems to be what you want.

Since I posted the original question, my situation has changed. I now have a Sinar monorail sitting atop the very excellent Sinar pan-tilt head, a former demo model bought from Sinar. The pan tilt head is lovely and I can use it (sans any QR plates) under my Crown. So I've managed to get my LF kit onto one head without the need for QR plates.