Most travel-friendly 4x5 setup?

Looking to cut down on weight and bulk when travelling. I need (mostly) rise and (occasionally) fall movements and that's pretty much it. Lenses are invariably wide, I could probably live with carrying just a 90mm. Carrying film is a HUGE pain, I have to carry months' worth of the stuff.

What's the most compact and travel-friendly way to accomplish all this? Crown/Speed Graphic or Linhof Technika, and a fleet of Grafmatic backs?

(The original plan was Cambo Wide DS, but getting them to work with LF film seems impossible.)

On the film side, assuming the maximum sheets you shooting per session is 10, I would suggest five Toyo holders (the best and newest option), and simply have an unexposed box of film and an old empty box to hold the exposed film. If you have one film type you can load up the film in a bathroom at night and unload it it the following night. If you can find an empty box that takes 50 sheets that would be a help.

I have the original Cambowide with a 65mm lens. It is a very fast camera to set up and use. With an external viewfinder you don't even need a darkcloth.
You should seriously consider one with a 90mm lens.

Otherwise, if speed of setup is not so important a lightweight 4x5 wooden camera would meet your criteria.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

Carrying film is a HUGE pain, I have to carry months' worth of the stuff.

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Grafmatic 6-sheet holders might be a good way to go. A bit of a learning curve to load and use, and they aren't cheap any more.

Here are some interesting ideas:

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...LF-Carry/page2

Travel-friendly... Car, bike, hiking, backpacking, traveling by plane to distant countries, just what do you mean exactly.

I've done all the above with a 4x5 kit. Here are my methods for your consideration.

First, for your stated considerations, I'd be looking for a wooden field camera with a bag bellows or one of the dedicated wide-lens cameras. If you're planning on using any movements at all with a 90mm lens and shorter, you'll need that bellows option. My go-to has been a Wista SW, basically a DX with interchangeable bellows. The bag bellows takes up to 180mm lenses, so I don't often have to change to the standard bellows. The bellows itself weighs just a few ounces, so no problem taking both. Metal-bodied cameras are heavy; wooden folders are much lighter, even my heaviest rosewood Wista is just over 3 lbs. All my wooden folders have rise, fall, shift on one standard and front and rear tilts. I do have one larger (Zone VI) wooden camera. It's too big and heavy to really carry on trips and gets little use except close to the car. If you don't have a camera yet, look at the Chamonix, Shen Hao and Wista lines. Used DXs turn up often, but they are not ideal for shorter lenses. Shen Hao makes a dedicated wide-lens camera. There are lots of others too. The lightest camera I've worked with is the Horseman Woodman.

Car:
I like a full-featured kit when I'm car camping/road tripping. The car gives me room to store stuff and then choose options for day hikes, etc. I usually take two cameras, six or seven lenses and 50 film holders. These latter are stored loaded in an inconspicuous looking beat up cooler, which deters thieves. I choose what I need as far as camera and lens selection for the occasion, usually day hikes, where I take a compact folding camera (~3 lbs), three to four compact lenses (e.g., 100mm WF Ektar, 135mm Plasmat of some kind, 203mm Ektar and a Nikkor M 300mm on a top-hat board), six film holders, meter, etc., all carried in a lumbar pack and a photo vest or coat with lots of pockets (depending on weather). Tripod was carried in a free hand or strapped on to the bottom of the pack for scrambling. I always take extra film and film boxes so I can reload on the road, either in a darkened hotel bathroom or, in cases of extreme need, at night in my tent.

Bike:
I only biked around my home cities, so not really traveling, but my kit was similar to the above day-hiking kit, but adapted for architecture. So, the lens kit was skewed toward wider and more coverage: 90mm Nikkor SW f/8, 135mm WF Ektar, 180mm and 240mm Fujinon A lenses, a set of 67mm filters with adapters for all the smaller lenses, meter, four or five holders, etc. All this in a small backpack/rolling carry-on type bag that I could shoulder easily while riding. Tripod got strapped to the rear rack on the bike. For longer trips of more than a day, I'd likely have resorted to something like I took backpacking...

Backpacking:
Weight is of the essence here, so, 4x5 Horseman Woodman (really light) 100mm Ektar, 135mm Plasmat and the 203 Ektar only, one set of four 52mm filters and meter. No regular filmholders for this. Instead, I took a Mido clamshell and several holders, they are kind of like a reloadable Ready-Load system (Ready-Loads were great too when they were made...). The tiniest tripod I could get away with got strapped to the back of the pack. All this only took 7-8 lbs, but still added significantly to pack weight.

Traveling by plane and playing tourist:
My kit was basically my city kit (see above). For traveling by plane, I'd fill my rolling carry-on/backpack with filmholders. The rest of the kit went in the checked luggage. The film in the carry-on then got either a hand inspection or, when that didn't work out (damned Heathrow!) run through the X-ray scanners. Until recently, a few passes through the scanners did no visible damage. Nowadays I'd see what other options were available to avoid having the film scanned, such as buying and processing film at the destinations, etc. After arriving, my kit would be a handheld tripod and the little rolling carry-on. That's been on buses in dozens of cities, on water taxis and the vaporetti in Venice, on my back on bikes, etc.., etc.

Hope this helps a bit,

Doremus

If you only need rise and fall, its hard to go wrong with a stripped down crown graphic. For film, I do as Angus, take six holders on a trip, and a darkbag in case I don't have a light tight bathroom. I have also changed film under blankets in a dark room at night. Since I had an x-ray incident once, I tend to take chemicals and a patterson orbital on long foreign trips so I can develop as I go.

One interesting design is from Vist Camera in Lithuania: a 4x5 pinhole camera with bellows, which can be converted to a wide angle view camera with basic rise/fall capabilities. It should be very compact and lightweight.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286614160071

For myself, I think either Chamonix 4x5 F1 or Wista 45 DX are compact and light enough to carry anywhere. The benefit of Wista is that you can keep a small lens on while folded. An Angulon 90/6.8 will fit, but not the bigger Super Angulon 90/8 or 90/5.6. I use a Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod leg with small ball head.

The Angulon 90/6.8 lens does not allow much if any movements. That is why Doremus uses a 100mm Kodak Wide-field for a lightweight set up. The Super Angulon's do allow movements.

You are totally right, the Angulon 90/6.8 does not have enough movement for 4x5. Other than the 100mm Kodak Wide-Field, some of the Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle are both small and have big coverage. But in my humble opinion, they do not have the image quality of modern 90/8 lenses.

Technikas are not all that light but they are compact. Fold up into a bombproof clamshell.

You won't go wrong with one of them.

3 options come to mind based on your spec list of 90mm, front rise, and travel friendly

1. Technical option like Cambo Wide, Alvandi Panoral, Arca Swiss RL3di,etc. Sturdy, simple, and accurate.

2. Wood non folding option like Ebony Wide, Ebons RSW45, Chamonix 45HS-1, etc. A few more movements and lighter weight but a little less sturdy and precise.

3. Folder like Linhof/Graflex/etc. Packs into it's own box and the lens folds inside to save space and keep that safe. Heavier option, but if you use it handheld with an RF you can ditch the tripod entirely which will save you more weight and space than any camera ever could.

Personally I've ended up using my Linhof handheld a surprising amount of times due to unforeseen tripod restrictions. It feels like any famous landmark is tripod-free these days.

Nagaoka, Ikeda Anba, or Shen Hao - wood folder with a convertible 135mm/235mm schneider lens. 2 grafmatic holders for 12 sheets. Meter, cable release, filters, dark cloth. Fits in a soft lunchbox or shaving travel kit (pelican case if you are fancy). Travel tripod from FLM.
The Chamonix N2 is slightly larger but would be a good contender for a small kit.

I would throw the Horseman “technical” cameras in the mix (FA/HD) with a Rodenstock 135/5.6 that will fold inside the body. I’d also take a hard look at a 6x12 RFB, especially since I think 120 hits he sweet spot in terms of image quality and convenience.

The Chamonix upright 45H1 or a variant thereof would make a good choice. Can be kept with a lens on, fast to set up, shorter bellows than the F versions. Upside is the option of a 4x10 back with bellows.

Ebony RSW

A fun and very usable 4x5 for travel.

About a kilo with a 150/5.6 lens/shutter on it. If one can carry a tripod all day, one can carry the pod with the camera on it all day -- film and meter in a small shoulder bag. Nothing needs to be put on the ground except the tripod feet. The 12" rail breaks into two and I usually just keep the 6" section on the camera. I've been using it for about 40 years...international travel, bicycle tours, backpacking, road trips, and everyday use.

https://toyoview.com/content/45CF_instructions.pdf

Folds up with a 150mm apo-sironar installed. Generous rise and fall, swing, shift and tile on front standard and enough bellows for a 400mm lens. Back tilt of15°. Can use a 90mm lens on a flat lensboard without having to drop the bed. 75mm or wider lens requires the bed drop.

Couldn't agree more!
Toyo's modern CF cameras are great, I have their view camera version the "CX" and couldn't be happier with it..

I hate to ask this s_c if my comment is too late and you already found something
and you only used 1 lens what lens was it ? im thinking of making a "travels flat" box camera where people just supply their lens ...
I mean as long as you know your lens and what you are pointing to, point and shoot on a leveled tripod works great..

Jak

My lightweight 4x5 is an Ebony RW45. It will handle up to 360mm standard lenses, but isn't ideal for wide angle work shorter than 90mm. Ebony was the finest quality wooden line ever, with the best hardware (machined titanium). I chose the lighter weight pattern-grade mahogany version (versus heavier actual ebony wood). It's plenty compact.

In terms of what is still in production, I'd look at one of the Chamonix models.

There was a time when hikers and backpackers mostly either went for lightweight little Wista woodies (or something similar), or, on the other hand, distinctly heavier but more durable Linhof Technikas. My brother was a Technika guy, but never carried it very far from the car, while I did many long strenuous backpacks with an even heavier, more versatile Sinar monorail system. The little Ebony folder was a wise pre old age investment.

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Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

My lightweight 4x5 is an Ebony RW45. It will handle up to 360mm standard lenses, but isn't ideal for wide angle work shorter than 90mm. Ebony was the finest quality wooden line ever, with the best hardware (machined titanium). I chose the lighter weight pattern-grade mahogany version (versus heavier actual ebony wood). It's plenty compact.

In terms of what is still in production, I'd look at one of the Chamonix models.

There was a time when hikers and backpackers mostly either went for lightweight little Wista woodies (or something similar), or, on the other hand, distinctly heavier but more durable Linhof Technikas. My brother was a Technika guy, but never carried it very far from the car, while I did many long strenuous backpacks with an even heavier, more versatile Sinar monorail system. The little Ebony folder was a wise pre :)old age investment.

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+1

I acquired a mahogany RW45 last year. Between the RSW & RW, I’ve got my lenses covered.
I wanted one for the reasons you mention. :)

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Originally Posted by Vaughan

Grafmatic 6-sheet holders might be a good way to go. A bit of a learning curve to load and use, and they aren't cheap any more.

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This, and yes it's too bad they now often go for $100+ individually. However, in the last few years I still occasionally find a bulk lot of them for affordable prices, which I pick up, but I think I officially have enough (over a dozen lol). I've seen people selling 3-4 of them at a time for about $40-50 a piece occasionally which isn't much more than typical DDS holders. A few years ago on a road trip I was able to bring a single bag with about 150 sheets of various types loaded into Grafmatics and DDS holders and so never had to load/unload film which was very nice.

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Originally Posted by jnantz

Couldn't agree more!
Toyo's modern CF cameras are great, I have their view camera version the "CX" and couldn't be happier with it..

I hate to ask this s_c if my comment is too late and you already found something
and you only used 1 lens what lens was it ? im thinking of making a "travels flat" box camera where people just supply their lens ...
I mean as long as you know your lens and what you are pointing to, point and shoot on a leveled tripod works great..

Jak

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All the suggestions for "camera X with a 150mm or 165mm lens" I have ruled out, since as stated I primarily operate at 90mm. Maybe even 65mm. 150mm or longer would be "nice to have" at most.

The Ebony RSW look nice but I am not sure they would hold up to the rigours of travel. How do you keep everything protected when folded down for travel, without a box around it like the Technika or Graflex cameras?

The technical cameras are extremely attractive since you cannot get pinholes in the bellows if you do not have a bellows. Being able to set up in a hurry is a definite plus. Being able to scale focus and rely on the ground glass only for composing is also nice.

The selection of lens is likely to be driven by the camera. There is a very limited selection of lenses available for the Cambo Wides. For a folding camera, the lens must be compact enough to fold into the camera -- the Super Angulon XL for example is at a disadvantage because it would require removing the lens board every time you pack up.

If you’re serious about using a lens as wide as a 65mm, which happens to be one of my favorites, especially for panoramas, then folding field cameras are not the way to go. I own the latest Linhof Master Technika 3000, and using a 65mm on it is a PIA no matter how Linhof spins it in their advertising. That’s actually why I’ve stopped using it and switched back to my Ebony RSW.

It’s far easier to adapt a dedicated wide-angle 4x5 camera to shoot longer lenses using top hats, than it is to make a standard 4x5 (designed for 90mm and longer) work with a wider lens.

Figure out how wide you really want to shoot, and start your camera search from there.

Your question about transporting non-folding cameras is actually easy to answer: use either a large lens wrap or a fitted case. Personally, I use the same style of case whether I’m traveling with my Ebony RSW (a non-folder) or my folding RW. It’s lightweight, practical, well-made, and crafted by a fellow forum member, Daniel Stone.

My RSW kit:

https://cameraartist.com/wp-content/.../almeda_-2.jpg

https://cameraartist.com/wp-content/...08/almeda_.jpg

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Originally Posted by darr

Your question about transporting non-folding cameras is actually easy to answer: use either a large lens wrap or a fitted case. Personally, I use the same style of case whether I’m traveling with my Ebony RSW (a non-folder) or my folding RW. It’s lightweight, practical, well-made, and crafted by a fellow forum member, Daniel Stone.

My RSW kit:

https://cameraartist.com/wp-content/.../almeda_-2.jpg

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Do you have a reference for that yellow case with the 2 lenses on their board? That looks something very useful.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

The Ebony RSW look nice but I am not sure they would hold up to the rigours of travel. How do you keep everything protected when folded down for travel, without a box around it like the Technika or Graflex cameras?

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As with any other camera, you put it in a well-designed case.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

The selection of lens is likely to be driven by the camera. There is a very limited selection of lenses available for the Cambo Wides.

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You've already said that your primary needs are 90 and maybe 65. Available lenses for the original version of the Cambo Wide that cover 4x5 include 47XL, 58, 65, 75 and 90.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

For a folding camera, the lens must be compact enough to fold into the camera -- the Super Angulon XL for example is at a disadvantage because it would require removing the lens board every time you pack up.

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That takes a few seconds.

That said, if maximum speed, convenience and physical robustness are your highest priorities and you're willing to accept some extra bulk as well as being limited to parallel movements (i.e., no swing/tilt), the Cambo Wide might be just what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Havoc

Do you have a reference for that yellow case with the 2 lenses on their board? That looks something very useful.

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Sure, right here: https://www.stonephotogear.com/cases/45459-lens-case

A 75mm Grandagon f4.5 is the widest 4x5 lens that I have which I seldom, very seldom use. 90mm I use a lot. To use the 75mm on the CF you have to use a recessed lensboard and employ the drop bed function but portrait compositions will show the bed in the frame so you can only use it on landscape compositions. My Toyo 45AX can be used with 65mm lens on a flat lensboard with full movements and using recessed lensboards lenses down to 47mm can be used. The AX also has tilt and swing on the back. But the AX is almost 2x the weight of the CF. A 75mm lens is equivalent to a 24mm on 135 and 65mm lens equivalent to 21mm; 47mm would be be equivalent to 15mm in 135 world.

I've sometimes gone out with a Tachihara 45GF 4x5 camera, three Grafmatics, and a Schneider Super Angulon 90mm f8 as my only lens.

What you don't hear very often is that the SA 90/8 can be used as a convertible. With the front half removed my lens becomes a 195mm f18, near enough.
Is that 195/18 sharp? It's sufficiently sharp if it is stopped down, way down to where diffraction tends to dominate lens faults. And the #25 red filter that's often on it suppresses a whiff of chromatic aberration.

I prefer to make small-ish landscape prints, typically 8x10, where long exposure times are not a problem and super lens sharpness won't be seen anyway.
On a serious landscape journey I'll take the "holy trinity" of lenses, 90mm, 135mm or 150mm, and 210mm. Basically that's enough for a lifetime's work.